EmoTracker - pack-support

EmoTracker

Support / pack-support

If your package manager is empty, autotracker isn't working, or you can't update, make sure you have re-downloaded and installed the latest update. See #announcements for details.

I'm not familiar enough with OOTR to know what's correct or not, so please let me know if you find there's a legit bug on my end and I'll get it address ASAP

19:39

If anybody can provide clear repro steps in terms of what items to have, and what should be accessible, that would be great.

I have a vague idea of OOTR logic, so let's see if I shake down anything obvious real quick

19:43

important question: what variant

Not sure what you're referencing. I played an allsanity on the new pack update yesterday, and the only logic flaw I found was that the new Gerudo Card logic hasn't been applied yet.

Deku Tree isn't opening on any dungeon type state even though the Kokiri Sword and Deku Shield, the vanilla requirements to open access, are marked.

19:46

However, I don't believe this is an error on the EmoTracker side.

19:46

This is an error with the wrong dungeons being hidden by the states.

19:47

@Hamsda Your new update to enable "I don't know which dungeon is which yet" state has left some dungeons not showing up when the correct state is enabled e.g. Deku Tree vanilla vanishes but is in logic when Deku Tree is marked vanilla, Deku Tree MQ is visible when Deku Tree is marked vanilla

19:47

and Deku Tree MQ vanishes when Deku Tree is marked MQ

19:48

The kicker is both locations are in logic and hidden when in the "I don't know" state

Oh, it's the one with dungeon entrance rando, my bad.

19:52

but yeah

this applies even in normal and keysanity variants

19:55

is am bork

ill look into it, having a migraine atm

oh i think its me being a dingus and equating visibility_rules with restrict_visibility_rules

I accidentally blocked access to internet for Emotracker, so now I can't get any new packages

same. there's always some way to access the blacklist of your firewall software, but it's often obscure

Well I don't know how to allow access for it, my firewall is Norton, and last time I allowed access to something, my computer deleted the software

and the only logic flaw I found was that the new Gerudo Card logic hasn't been applied yet

@LostThePirate what is the current behaviour for gerudo? haven't played a lot of sanities lately I only saw https://github.com/TestRunnerSRL/OoT-Randomizer/issues/820 and that one was closed

I fixed my access thing

good to hear. norton can be a pain these days, heard lots of horror stories from customers

@Hamsda If Card is shuffled, then Card is what allows access to HBA as well as GTG, not rescuing the Carpenters.

10:17

Also what allows in-logic access to the Wasteland via the Gerudo Gate.

10:19

Basically, when Card is shuffled, possession of the card is what dictates if the Gerudo Guards are agro to you or not (with the exception of the 1 or 4 ladies guarding locked cells, who are agro with or without Card until you beat them and gain their keys or shuffled items). (edited)

10:22

In the Allsanity Saturday, HBA and the GS at the end of the archery range, as well as access to the Wasteland/Colossus, were not showing as "available" with the Card marked in the tracker, even though those checks were functionally available based on the settings.

10:23

I think GTG was showing as out-of-logic too, but I'm not certain.

weird considering that PR was closed...

10:24

I'll look into it

10:24

thanks

Np

with the new settings popup i'm planning on reworking the settings in the next few days anyways

The change was pre-5.0, but not sure specifically where it changed.

i'll just look at the git blame later

lol

10:26

All good, just might want to edit your post in #pack-announcements to clarify that Shuffled Card may not show all if your logical checks, currently.

You can also look at the tooltip for the Carpenter option and the Gerudo Card option on the Main Rules page of the generator website if you're still unclear Hamsda. (edited)

I'm wondering if I am doing something wrong and I apologise for the long post in advance. When using the Ninban ALTTPR Entrance and keysanity tracker I'm unable to indicate that I can access a location unless I have the required items to logically access it. For example, if I were to start in Link's house and the exit drops me onto the dark overworld through dark sanctuary I am unable to edit the dark sanctuary markers, both the door and go icon, to indicate that I can go there unless I also add the items that would give me access through a portal like the one above kakariko. As such I have to add a combination of pearl, hammer, mitts, etc for it to turn green, so that I can edit the one location, and then remove all the items that I don't have to get the tracker accurate after I update the location. And even with all items, keys, crystals/pendants, etc selected there are still 8 or 9 locations that show up red, e.g. TR safety door. Could someone please tell me what I am missing/doing wrong? Thanks. (edited)

I'm not familiar with this pack, but my first guess would be having the wrong variant loaded. Can right click the folder icon in the lower right corner of the tracker to switch variants within a pack.

Both varients in the pack are entrance randomizer so they should work the same. I'm currently away from my personal computer that has it installed but I can check that later today.

(Anova and I were talking about this in another server.) I don't believe that's the issue.

Image attachment

10:14

And indeed, even with the other variant, you get the same thing.

Image attachment

As I said, I'm not familiar with the pack, so it was just a guess.

Yeah, no worries, appreciate the suggestion. Just thought I'd follow up for Anova

Generally, when you have questions about the pack, tagging the creator is a solid idea. (edited)

Fair point. @Ninban, if you have any input, it'd be appreciated.

(edited)

@Alesha @AnovaBlackwood Go to the menu > Tracking > Always Allow Chest Manipulation, then you can right-click a red square to mark it as accessible

@Spleebie that works! Thank you!

Thanks!

@Alesha @AnovaBlackwood Also if you don't set up which medalion is required for TR and MM entrance then it's normal that those location are red. You can do that by right clicking the medalion.

Ah, right, thanks for the tip!

Shouldn't there be a failsafe "you own all three medallions" condition, anyway?

05:59

At that point you literally don't need to care what the opening medallion is for MM or TR.

I believe that does exist

06:04

Unless for some reason the alttp map logic wasnt ported right from emos

It does, if you use the "Both" option, it'll require both medallions

andyThinking

Say that again, but slowly.

How do i go about downloading the newest majoras mask package?

oh i just had an old version of emotracker, figured it out lol

is there a pack anyone's put together that would allow me to change the map/item layout in the app?

17:04

Notably, I want to either undock the items OR have it in the same row as the map(s).

You can export layout overrides and make edits for any pack. #customization-support

@EmoSaru I'm having an issue with the Standard Map Tracker that's included in the official package. I'm using v2.3.6.7 The issue is the tracker is showing Turtle Rock as inaccessible even though I have checked off the correct Medallion https://imgur.com/HOfykWU https://imgur.com/rM1cSFe If I check off the Ether Medallion, the location shows as accessible. The Ether Medallion is required to open Misery Mire and for some reason the tracker thinks both areas open with the Ether Medallion. https://imgur.com/CoypDs7 https://imgur.com/F19GIih Hopefully this is where the report belongs, and not in general.

You need to right click on the medallion to set which dungeon(s) it opens.

01:49

The reason ether unlocked TR for you is that at that point you had all 3 medallions, guaranteeing that you had the correct one. (edited)

Oooooooh okay > face palms < Thanks for the clarification. ❤ (edited)

np

Is there a medallion shuffle option?

Aaaaand I just realized someone posted the answer to a similar question and I missed it searching >.< (This is what I get for posting at 2am) > double face palm <

discord search can be a little iffy

01:57

just saying

Is there a medallion shuffle option?

I think it is always shuffled?

Medallions are always shuffled in ALTTPR.

I mean, what places the medallions open?

Yes.

In vanilla, Ether opens Misery Mire and Quake opens Turtle Rock. In randomizer, the required medallion is always randomized.

This is literally in the getting started guides for LttPR.

13:24

Which are accessible from the LttPR or SMZ3 Discords.

It's probably on the Z3 randomizer site help page, too.

I've been watching randos for a while but never realized that got randomized, I've never played one myself

13:52

Well, never played LttPR Did a hollow knight and a zero mission

I'm not the one who doesn't understand. aeraliThink

aeraliThink

numpThink

Nicholas always does this. Late to conversations with the wrong explanations for the wrong people. The conversation should have died and left #pack-support and gone to the appropriate game Discords anyway.

(edited)

So I'm using Hamsda's OoTR tracker and it happens that the list of checks for some dungeons such as Spirit and Shadow are so long that the lower part of the list is cut-off, so I'm unable to see/mark off checks on that part such as deep checks and boss. Is there any ways to scroll down those lists that I'm unaware of?

20:40

Here's an example of what I'm talking about

Image attachment

Double click to pin the location, and it will be in a horizontal layout. As a general rule though low resolution screens can have issues like this with very large/dense locations currently.

Stop trying to view the pack in Fullscreen. Narrow the window, and it will thin down the map so you can see pins.

Yeah, I guess I'll avoid putting the tracker in fullscreen for now (my setup use my laptop + TV for dual screens)

@Hamsda Afternoon. I may have missed an update explaining this, but how exactly do you change a dungeon in your tracker to show the MQ items? There are now three states for the dungeon labels (normal, inverted, red), but all three appear to give me the non MQ item list.

you might be missing an update to emotracker itself then

11:01

there have been quite a few changes to how visibility works in the last 2 or 3 weeks

11:01

inverted should still be MQ and the new red one for unknown should show both

I'm good now. thanks.

For a while now the Emotracker Official ALTTP Pack says Update avalaible, but nothing happenes when I click update. I tried cleaning all my overrides and re-installing to no avail. I did try installing PuGHud for example and it did work. Dunno if its really updated or nor but its weird.

What version of the Emotracker program are you using?

2.3.6.7, last one I believe

06:48

I completely uninstalled Emotracker

06:49

I also usually play with a Friend, and for example IP appears yellow for me without somaria, but he says for him its green, so I dunno if the logic is a bit different

This problem was just discussed in #general-support , try out the things Emo said there. Namely, check your Documents/EmoTracker/packs folder to see if the LttP pack is unzipped.

Well it was not unzipped, but deleting all the packs there did seem to fix it, thanks!

@Hamsda hopefully this is the right place to put this, but I've spent a bit of time upscaling then downsampling and generally cleaning up the worldmap graphic your OoT pack uses. A few vertical pixels have been shaved off to fit it to 16:9, color noise and artifacts generally reduced, and most noticeable is that one off-color horizontal bar that runs across the image has been mostly eliminated. I've exported 1080 and 720 versions and can provide them if you're interested in making use of them in future updates.

sounds good

1080

Image attachment

15:17

720 version- roughly the same filesize but good for direct comparison to the original

Image attachment

ty

@Hamsda TY in advance if you can help. I'm trying to make a custom broadcast view. Is there a way to get the dungeon_grid_wide in the same row as a row of items?

you can just grab its contents and use them in the actual rows

23:29

don't think it takes a referenced grid and lets you extend the rows

Oh darn it. I thought I did that. And I did, but forgot a comma sakuPLZ

sakuPLZ

(edited)

23:32

Thanks

Quick question, on the Link To The Past tracker, what's the "GO" Item supposed to be?

I think that refers to http://randoguide.com/go-mode/

Go Mode - A Link to the Past Randomizer Guide

Go Mode (or GoMode) indicates the point during a race at which the player has obtained all items required to collect 7 crystals and defeat Ganon. The actual items required to achieve Go Mode are different for every seed. For instance, the Flippers may not be a Go Mode item if...

Alright, so does that apply to the button that becomes green when activated?

It's a vestigal remnant of a bygone era when other trackers included it as an indicator for stream viewers.

12:27

That is, in fact, its only purpose, to indicate to viewers that you're done hunting and are in "win the game" mode.

Ah, alright, thanks

I replaced mine with a blue ball counter for Aga 1 bigjLUL

bigjLUL

1

it originated from Zarby's tracker where hitting the GO button started the timer that was built into it

23:55

How silly. We have timer software!

if you're not running splits or tracking other data, I don't see it as silly (edited)

00:38

one less program to have to open

Yeah, then it morphed. I’ve considered just dropping it a few times, but some people like it, and most other things I could put there are equally useless and/or dumb.

Yeah, my replacement for it is purely a meme.

I had it for a while cuz it fit the box style space my hud is designed to fit into

Why was checkerboard in logic? No gloves?

Image attachment

cuz not good logic probably, I dont believe anyone maintains the map tracker for smz3 anymore

what are these two little images next to the item grid (with the number 7 on them) for?

Image attachment

23:12

@EmoSaru in your pack

How many crystals are required for opening GT and being able to damage Ganon

awesome, thanks!

np <.</

Regarding why Checkerboard is in logic...you have power bombs, supers, space jump, varia, and gravity. I think you can enter Lower Norfair, go backwards into the Screw Attack room, take the door on the lower right, and end up at the Misery Mire Area from there. Use the mirror at the appropriate spots.

would the glove still be required to pick up the rock to get into the cave?

......that's a fair point. The image was a little unclear there, but I see the issue.

Yes, glove1 IS required regardless of how you get onto the ledge. I swear this has been fixed package-side, but apparently not.

No one is maintaining the package afaik.

Hello, Is there a tutorial somewhere to learn how to create a new package for emotracker ? I'd like to create some packages for metroid fan-games (private in a first time, then maybe uploaded) and I'd like to do them on Emotracker, but I have no idea about where to start...

Your best bet is taking an existing package that does something similar to how you want it, see how it works and then change what you need (edited)

12:57

also, look at other packs, they often have a lot of good ideas how to do certain stuff

I'll give it a look then, thanks

13:04

I think Zero Mission and ALTTSM will be enough, so I'll go deeper into them.

Specifically TWWR lists all Beedle locations for having the 20 Rupee item, instead of OSI, DRI, and FH, there might be other islands too but I know WFI does not have it.

15:08

Also, RSI Beedle is not visible from the beginning even though you can always access the ability to see it, like SHI world item from bird control

@Benoit #customization-support is the place to discuss this and find resources and answers.

woops, sorry for that then...

I will look into the WW stuff

If I find a potential error in a pack, where should I report it? It's the LttP Entrance randomizer by Ninban & Fylion

In here.

10:42

Also I did not make that pack I just gave ninban 3 good ideas

oh ok, I was just reading it

Yeah no worries, I just mention it reflexively because I think it's funny my name's on there.

but basically: I found Bumper Cave Exit and marking that as open made Bumper Cave Entry available, despite me not having gloves. I don't think there's any way in there without gloves? Am I missing anything?

10:44

(I'm using Keysanity tracker, didn't check if problem exists on non-Keysanity)

@Ninban fyi ^

you're right, I saw this month ago but never fixed. I hope to make time for fixes when i stop making time for more job hours

that's legit. Just making sure I wasn't losing it

Hello. I believe there's an issue with the Ninban SMZ3 tracking package. I'm seeing Checkerboard cave as a valid check without having any gloves.

This is becoming ritual... you could say we know about it already. <.<

Ah, good to see your attitude hasn't changed. I apologize for not having advanced knowledge about the question before joining the server to ask the question. I appreciate the confirmation though, have a nice day.

classic natalie

Not sure which channel this should go in, but; if I wanted to start making my own tracker on here from nothing, and I have pretty minimal experience, what's a good place to start? any guides or starters to go off of?

not really any guides, we all just basically looked at what emo or others did

real programmers steal code from others

08:55

(notevenjoking)

#customization-support has lots of good stuff and is where to ask for help as well

08:55

Especially the schema in the pins there

Github

for DarkenedSky's wind waker tracker, it's possible to get to the "Islet of Steel" without bombs as a sequence break by hugging the ship next to the entrence and letting the other ships bomb it for you.

22:06

that requiem chest is obtainable

22:10

Also, the tracker doesn't have a setting in it to turn off the battlesquid minigame like the randomizer does now, not that big a deal since I can just mark off the battlesquid game, just felt I should note that the tracker doesn't take that bit of logic into consideration in the settings

I haven't looked at the settings in a while. I'll be doing some update stuff for the pack sometime soon, and I'll add in that sequence break then as well. Thanks for pointing it out!

On ALTTPR tracker, there's a logic bug where Turtle Rock and Misery Mire are solid red even if there is one chest accessible in TR and a few chests accessible in Mire

09:39

should show orange like other dungeons with partial accessibility

No logic bug. You need to mark the medallion as opening the dungeon first.

how

09:42

tried to figure that out

Right-click the medallion to toggle MM/TR/BOTH opening

2

ahhhhhh

09:42

ty

Here's another one. Zora is showing orange right now, i.e. zora is accessible but ledge is not, and do not have gloves or flippers. Shouldn't that be red or at least yellow in that I'd have to use a glitch to get there when I don't have gloves or flippers?

what colors do the subsections have?

subsections correctly colored. Yellow for zora and blue for ledge

12:20

but the main square is orange

so it's correct

12:20

orange is partial

so it should show orange even when a glitch is required?

orange is only useful as "check subsections"

ok

it just means partial accessibilty

are there docs somewhere? I

12:21

The webpage doc section is empty

There are references for the colors in #faq, which is a great place to find answers to Frequently Asked Questions

Found something with Ganon's tower that is always true, assuming you have the required number of crystals to get in. One more access rule should be added, "[hammer], [firerod], hookshot, [boots], [somaria]". This is because there are exactly two chests that can be taken under that set of conditions, along with one that can be peeked at.

I will get this fixed up in the next pack update.

there are some mistakes on Ninban / Fouton SMZ3 map tracker: checker board cave forgets the glove requirement and the back of DP doesn't consider that you can skip glove with mire area access + mirror

Iirc, that tracker pack is not supported by its creators anymore. Unfortunately, any logic bug that exist will likely stay that way.

ok

I hope it's ok to upload stuff here. I added GT to the smalttp map tracker (mostly copy/pasted from @EmoSaru's lttpr tracker), and fixed the two bugs @Cadenza mentioned. I'm completely new to fiddling with EmoTracker, so let me know if there's any issues.

smalttprando_gilgatex_fixes.7z

10.95 KB

I don’t recommend uploading packs directly here, for a variety of reasons. If you’d like to take over maintenance of the pack, please dm the creators to talk about it (that would be great!)

It's just a couple of file overrides, not a full pack. I'll see if I can contact the creators to get it updated on their end.

cadenz1Cheer

1

@EmoSaru are all of these supposed to be on the pyramid fairy location in your pack? Seems odd...

"force_visibility_rules": [ "bow" ], "force_invisibility_rules": [ "sword" ], "restrict_visibility_rules": [ "bomb" ]

Ah shit, testing code snuck out. I will correct this tonight.

1

Hi all! Just got back into running randomizers again and had some questions because its been a while. Been playing LoZ MM and on Emotracker I cant seem to find fairies/skultulas.. am I blind or doing something wrong? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

There might just simply not be one..... they are all in the same areas after all.... The last question i had was if there was a way to show you can access dungeons for the dungeon entrance swap. For instance i can get to stone tower temple... but it is thru the woodfall temple entrance.... so the tracker shows all the woodfall items and not the stone tower once.

The pack probably isn't configured for ER, and in general, if you're playing a more complicated game mode like Entrance Rando, it's expected that you understand the mechanics of your game enough to play such a mode.

Sounds good. Thanks!

@epicnessss A friend of mine is working on a pack to track skulltulas and fairies It's a relatively new feature

1

Hey there, I've started using EmoTracker recently and it's fantastic! I'm thinking about trying to do a bit of pack dev, is there any docs or whatnot for that besides looking at the existing packs as a reference? And do I need the role to access that I presume?

nope, there isn't

Cool, into the pack code I'll dive then.

I highly suggest going to #customization-support and grabbing the schema there as well

(edited for correctness) (edited)

Thanks, I'll do that! I need the role to access that channel I presume?

#customization-support

11:47

the role is only to post in #pack-announcements

Oh okay, good to know thanks!

oops, wrong one got tagged

11:48

Thanks ReggX

@cubesolver Less of an issue and more of a request, can you add a rupee/junk item to your capture list? For people like me who like to mark the items regardless if they're useful or not

Yeah I can do that

16:52

It probably won’t happen for a while though as I am out of town

No big deal

Also unrelated @cubesolver but the "Right Minish Crack" doesn't autotrack

The one in castor wilds? It should have been renamed to north minish crack a while ago, but I’ll take a look

It's possible, but I know I'm using the latest version

21:36

Image attachment

21:37

Also, the two bombable chests that are marked red are possible to get with my current loadout

21:37

Image attachment

Logic expects 4 keys for them, I’ll look at the location later

Image attachment

3

no, i mean a screenshot of your tracker

How about we start from step zero. Without taking pictures of any previous texts you have written, explain in detail what the problem is. Identify unambiguously which tracker package you are using. Ask your question or state your complaint. Be prepared to provide supporting information, such as a screenshot. If necessary, describe what you think the expected result should be.

in the ootr map tracker my hamsda, i don't have hookshot, but it says i can get lake hylia poh and adult fishing

01:22

is it a bug or am i missing a tech?

You have access to Magic Beans.

oh ok

This means you have Bombs or backdoor Zora River (through a Scale). (edited)

ya, i have backdoor

There should be a tracker setting that you can enable to force you to mark that you planted a bean before the Adult side considers its platform in tracker logic.

01:27

You can turn that on if you want, but you'll need to pay attention when you become able to plant the beans.

There is, this one here http://prntscr.com/qi3mtu

Captured with Lightshot

so does the Trials setting just mean how many trials you need to beat to destory the barrier?

I assume so; it's brand new today, lol.

That's "enable/disable the barrier", providing access to one new item check in GT

01:34

I bet

01:34

it may finally be enabled as a logic location in the event the barrier is auto-down

https://github.com/Hamsda/OoTRMapTracker/blob/master/README.md It's in the Readme ;)

oh you can check off each trial when you pin it. cool

yeah, its what felt most useful to me

it's awesome Hamsda, i'm gonna give it a test run now

Noticed a usability downside, though - with the way the hints work, if you get one saying, for example, Shiek dispelled the Forest Trial, you can't go in and mark that off as "cleared" even if you have Always Allow Chest Manipulation enabled.

01:42

It'll only permit interacting with it if you meet the logical requirements

01:43

So that might be a little harder to work with if you playing Random trials.

i never use play with hints. but i'm the completionist type, i buy everything in shopsanity and leave the junk items for last

Yeah, that was first touch feedback for Ham.

i figured out with all the sanities, everything closed, and gerudo normal behaviour, there's 439 checks

yeah lost, i know about that

01:50

i didnt find a good way to note that, and I honestly do not design around always allow chest manipulation

01:51

like if you get a hint for a trial being dispelled, it means the required count is reduced by 1, no good way for me to note which one

while you're here Hamsda, i was gonna ask if there are some differences between what the randomiser considers 'in logic' and what you consider 'in logic'. sometimes i run out of green dots and white text checks, and i have to do some yellow text checks to continue despite setting my seed to glitchless and all locations reachable

it might be good to document the tracker state the next time you discover this situation, as well as the next location of progression

Also might be things that are in logic but aren't being tracked the same, such as having many GS in logic, but not having them randomized so you're unaware that, say, 30 are currently in logic to get and that you should be working towards those to gain you next progression. Or it may be that your settings aren't perfectly matched to the Tracker - if you enable any Tricks, that's on the end user to know what they enabled and that the Tracker will show those as Sequence Breaks.

02:00

So you may run out of in-logic checks in base logic, but not in the logic used to roll your specific seed.

it's just little things like the Bottom of Zora's Fountain HP without Zora Tunic

Set Tunics to Fewer/FTR

02:01

That's a toggle that you control

yeah the tricks are part of why I delayed this

02:02

I wanted to get them in, but alas that will have to wait

r0b really went ham on adding tricks in for 5.0/5.1 looool

02:02

There's a lot to support, there

currently on the list for that stuff are all the tricks, damage mult, and starting age (since ive been enjoying random settings a bit too much

)

also Bottom of the Well without Lens

Toggle your Lens setting

02:03

Again, you have control over that.

>damage multiplier

02:03

uh does this exclude volvagia

If you don't match the tracker up to the logic you're using, you can't blame the tracker for giving you inaccurate feedback.

queen of 4 hearts per attack

yeah few niche cases where it has logical implications, might as well add it while i'm doing the other stuff LuL

LuL

Lava Scrubs... shudder

02:04

Child Climb GS........

its mostly ohko stuff or quad damage (in case you are still on 3 hearts)

02:05

but yeah, not sure when ill get around to all that

uh

i set my seed settings to 'bombchus not considered in logic', and 'lens required everywhere'. and i just noticed 'tunics required everywhere' is gone, makes sense coz you're expected to do that in vanilla

Actutally, just looking over the Readme... 10 grottos that contain 2 or 3 scrubs each. Only 2 of these are relevant if scrubsanity is off. Does this mean that the single scrub grotto (outside LH by default) isn't tracked in that count, or is that a typo? (edited)

02:10

It's kinda unclear since it says "2 or 3 scrubs each" but also notes that "2 of these" (one of which is the single-scrub) are relevant. (edited)

ye that one should be included, forgot about him being lonely

02:10

at least if i didnt miscount

XD

02:11

I think that's included in the 10, but I'm not absolutely certain. I'd have to check the Wiki page on Scrubs, lol.

ah-huh, found the randomizer logic compendium, now i know what is expects

Uh, pretty sure that hasn't been updated since 3.0

ugh dammit

community's fallen apart that far huh

Nah, just generally migrated to using the Wiki or directly consulting the logic files

do you still get yelled at for being correct

ye its 4 each with 2 and 3 scrubs that become relevant with scrub shuffle

fond memories of explaining exactly why a gtg situation wasn't a softlock (song of time blocks exist) and getting yelled at literally for being correct

02:15

i don't miss the place.

And I'm sure the trans community members there don't miss your aggressive misgendering of them. I'm sure everyone is happier now. Can we move on, please?

yeah really not the place and people to bad mouth that community tbh

Hi folks. As Hamsda quite rightly said, this is not the place to discuss issues with other communities, and it's definitely not the place to get into deeply personal and/or contentious issues, regardless of what they are. This is a large server, and I use it to provide support for EmoTracker. I am very thankful for how quiet this server is most of the time, and the fact that it MOSTLY remains focused on topic, because that allows me to provide reasonable support response time with a level of effort that I can afford to offer. Anything that threatens that is a candidate for message deletions, user silencing, and eventually bans. I will also say that while I don't generally silence/ban people here for behavior in other communities - as I said, this is a support resource - it HAS happened once for good reason, and I have zero issue with doing it again should such a situation arise. Be kind, be chill, and let's stay on topic.

how can i pin an item there is no exist in pin items like heartpiece?

You can't

@Hamsda ER tracker error - you can drop into the Deku Theater grotto as Adult, tracker shows it as Child Only.

i know

Ok. Coulda hosed me in a race today - Dampe's Grave was there, I thought ALR had a bug until Chat yelled at me that I was wrong. I ran around there for a good 20-30 seconds before dropping into the hole, I thought it wasn't there as Adult.

yeah i thought so as well, but its just the butterflies that are gone

@Lunæ It seems like the problem is with the randomizer logic. For some reason it puts that item behind plasma beam, even though you don't need plasma to get the item. When I update my tracker, I'll put that as a sequence break if it's not already fixed.

Huh Didn't think I went through one, but neat Thanks for the heads up

11:10

UndertaleHeart

Hi. I'm having trouble using the trackers for an MMR randomizer. I'm using the Rikkukun/epicYoshi version. I'm trying to mark the items I get, but when I go to a spot on the map that has multiple items, checking off one makes the whole cluster dissappear. Can someone help me with what I'm doing wrong?

Long press the mouse on the box, it will bring up everything, or you can double click the box to Pin it.

16:13

Right clicking on a cluster of checks in one box will clear every check in that cluster, that's the intended behavior.

@Rain I have the lamp, cape, Fighter Sword, bombs, and the bug net as far as relevant items to reaching and defeating Agahnim.

18:00

But the tracker shows both Agahnim himself and part of the items as red.

@AliceSteel shot in the dark: are you doing keysanity and don't have the keys marked?

Maybe I was in the Keysanity view. I'll check and make sure I'm not next time we play.

It's there a way to bring a location back once it's been cleared?

with F11 or shift + mouse over you can see all locations and can unmark things

Not working, the places I've checked off still aren't there

then they probably get hidden via visibility settings I don't think there is much you can do about that

So if I make a mistake I need to start over?

no

21:49

that is more an issue of the pack not quite working right or you can make them visible again

21:50

it would help if you can tell us what you are using and what you made the mistake with

21:50

just guessing what you did isnt really possible

Rikkukun/epicyoshi Majora's mask

21:51

I checked off a location but I forgot to pin it

21:53

I can't figure out how to bring locations back on the map

Ctrl+Z works as undo

I've done many things since then...

For future reference then :D

Anyone know why the Metroid Prime Randomizer Tracker doesn't seem to have proper logic for an unrandomized run? I'm about 20% of the way through and every item pickup is listed as either red or grey(with two blue exceptions, but I can't access those with my current items)

03:04

The logic does appear to be right none of the item shuffling that can be configured has been enabled

Did you enable vanilla beams being allowed in beam rooms

The option is No beams in vanilla beam rooms as that has a negating modifier in front, it is currently disabled

03:06

changing it doesn't change anything

I just remembered there was something related to that, so that was the only thought I had

okie

03:09

wait The room with boost ball is also marked as blue(checkable, but not acquirable?) but that doesn't need anything more than missiles to get to once you're in phendrana Uh

03:13

@SauceRelic if you're up to more looking at the tracker, I found something confusing about its logic

@Hamsda In Ganon's Castle, the dot on the map is red even though there are trials that are clearable (white text when you pin it)

because those are hosted items and not regular item locations

03:17

if you dont have access to castle, then barbShrug

barbShrug

trials

It really doesn't like unrandomized runs

Image attachment

What do you mean?

12:59

Since you can't get to the item it's red

12:59

It's up to the pack creator to make it so that blue checks turn red when captured

13:02

@Lunæ

it's vanilla you potato

The item in parenthesis is the original item. I can get to it, and indeed just did. The gravity suit is what you need to exit the room, otherwise it's a softlock

I get what hes saying. Only issue is that IF that location is the gravity suit

It could be that rando logic doesn't allow the vanilla item there out of caution? LttP doesn't allow a small key in the dark maze, for example (iirc anyway), though it's vanilla

^

There is a setting for No Gravity Suit in Gravity Chamber, which is disabled.

Wait, you're trying to use a tracker designed for rando to play vanilla?

14:43

Because SauceRelic builds the tracker based on the logic of BashPrime's randomizer

14:44

Not the vanilla game

Oh right, you did say that yesterday.

Oh! the one I was using was rekameohs' script that uses Claris' Randomizer.

14:58

back before going back to a clean run

14:58

and that allows customizing items to not randomize

14:59

Type "reset" to reset all of the items to their original spots, "all" to randomize nothing, or "exit" to return to the menu without saving settings.

14:59

so that's where that cached thought came from

15:05

Also, I was thinking that it would've been more robust than that

Yeah no, SauceRelic's tracker works off of Bash's rando logic, not any other randomizer :P

That is correct

@Ninban

Image attachment

18:59

Image attachment

18:59

it is telling me i can get to mimic cave with what I have, no spoilers but am I not seeing something or is it bugged?

should be yellow, it depends on key layout in tr

ok, i thought I was going crazy

19:01

because the key layout didnt not work out for me

19:01

ty

it's dependent on key layout or guaranteed if you can add fire rod to that set

19:02

so it should be yellow

I don't want to ping them, but I'm curious the devs of the Entrance Tracker pack for LTTP can add autotracking support (For items, not entrances of course)

@Usurper Grimm thanks for finding that! I'm going to be taking over that combo randomizer pack from Ninban so I'll make that change for the next release! It will be yellow if no firerod, green if you have it. (edited)

No problem

So I was wondering something and not sure if this is the right place. I'm dabbeling into mystery seeds so I got my first (ever, yeah) entrance randomizer. So I saw on EmoTracker that it has support for this, however I see no way of 'linking' 2 entrances to one another. Like Link's house is actually GT or something. Or is this not possible with this pack ?

What are you looking at specifically? Can you send a screenshot?

https://gyazo.com/4628112f5fca294a7032fa93e9ebfcee This is what I see when I use the Entrance Randomizer Map Tracker.

@Dorkmaster Flek I've been adding some little logic fixes here and there myself if you want to add them in. I'll make a pull request if I can figure out github

@Blackbeared Yeah, linking two entrances isn't supported in that pack, and it would be honestly difficult to do that using EmoTracker, so I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't any that will do that

14:31

My Link's Awakening Cave Shuffle tracker has the ability to label the entrances, but that's about it, at least as far as I know

Hamsda's OoTR pack supports ER for that game.

That pack doesn't link entrances together

Hmm alright np. Might take out the pen and paper. Although I don't know all the location names but I guess that's where the tracker does help. With names and logic I suppose.

@Wylem Thanks I think I actually found your fork already when I was looking into making my own changes and pulled those in already! It was the East Norfair fix, the checkerboard/lanmo fix entering via LN portal, and gauntlet PB fix.

oh ok lol, that explains why the pull request said there was nothing to compare

Yup, got em already but thank you!

14:34

There will be a new release Soon

Soon

...

2

FYI, ER tracking in EmoTracker is currently a hack at best

15:51

The pack that Ninban/Fylion built is a nice stopgap ,but it's not full ER tracking

15:51

It's on my radar for the future, but life has to stop kicking my ass first

Hey @EmoSaru, I was playing a keysanity seed with the tracker and I noticed the front of Skull Woods has 5 chests but I think it should be 6 now? I'm assuming it was 5 because of the soft lock room with the gibdos, but in the current version that chest is no longer guaranteed to be a small key right?

yep, noticed that tonight, will correct

Thanks again for making this and peeps for the pack. I was able to make a nice stream layout with it :)

Nice, thanks!

@Dorkmaster Flek Thanks so much for the update to the SMZ3 tracker. I noticed that autotracking isn't working on the SM side for the current beta (http://beta.samus.link) I can try to look into fixing it in the next few days unless you already have a fix for it.

19:14

I don't have any emotracker dev experience but I wrote Co-op for final fantasy 1 randomizer

Oh I didn't realize there was a beta version available for the next version.

19:17

That uh...might be changing some things.

I can't imagine too much has changed in the way items are stored

Probably not, but I've heard it's a total rewrite on the back end (though AFAIU the item placement logic should be the same).

yeah it's re-written in C#

19:19

anyway, I can try to bumble around and see if I can figure out what changed

19:19

no promises though heh

Yeah, I mean the autotracking works with the current 10.2 version which is what the pack is labelled for, so officially it's Working As Intended? I will have to look at what's different in the new version, and I'll prepare an update branch for that, but I would think it shouldn't go live until the new version of the rando is also live.

oh ok, gotcha, I just prefer playing on the beta because the beta interface has custom sprites

Fair enough.

19:21

I will definitely look at the beta to see what's changed in the meantime.

but yeah, thanks so much for adding autotracker support to the SMZ3 tracker, it just makes casual play so much nicer

For sure, I wanted to use it myself and it seemed like a fun endeavour. Glad you're enjoying it!

@MeridianBC one of the combo rando people tried a beta seed and they had no issues with the autotracking. The devs also confirmed there are no changes in address locations for any of the item/location data the autotracker looks at, most of the changes are for multi-world support. I'm going to try a beta seed myself later today, but if you still have the seed you were having issues with, can you DM me with it so I can double check?

05:54

I know you were using custom sprites, but that shouldn't affect any of the item/location data... (edited)

Is anyone actively working on the ALTTPR Entrance Randomizer Tracker? it was Ninban and Fylion, but Ninban recently gave up the SMZ3 Tracker updates, and Fylion isn't in the server as far as I can tell.. I just would like the auto tracking module added to it (not looking for entrance tracking, just items) so it'd interface with Bonta

Entrando isn’t officially supported yet, so, likely to wait until the core app has better functionality for it.

That's why I ask if anyone is working on it

00:38

or do you mean the core app as in LTTPR, not EmoTracker

I specifically mean EmoTracker as a whole. It will eventually receive more functionality that will make Entrando packs viable to make.

ah, I already use the entrance pack with notes.. just right click the entrances I check/come out of.. works for me

Search the server for: from:EmoSaru#8728 entrance

00:49

Works On My Machine™️.

I'm in this server but my name shouldn't be on the package

(edited)

06:39

I think the plan was just to get it out to a workable state in case someone wanted to mark entrances; I have no plans to upgrade it at this time.

Yeah, it’s workable and there’s no problems with it at all.. In fact it’s the easiest entrance tracker I’ve used (enable chest manip, show all locations, click on places you come out.. done)

11:54

But it just doesn’t work with multi world because multi world requires auto tracking... So I can’t use it in the multis

You can use it in multis, just use the command line multi client

what I ended up doing, thanks

Does anyone know what the new 'Child/Adult' option in Hamsda's OoT tracker does, exactly?

child / adult start

15:31

forgot to add to the readme, but hovering reveals the tooltip

Okay, thanks

@Dorkmaster Flek hey dorkmaster, so... I had custom layouts for the SMZ3 tracker

18:12

did the latest update substantially change things? even if I change my old files to fit your new file structure, it loads black

18:12

I just had a custom broadcast, items, and some changed item images

18:14

now that I'm looking at it, seems like things are shuffled quite a bit

I updated the pack to use the newer format, so most likely if you had custom overrides from before they would no longer work.

btw I made the in game hammer sprite, if you want it for the pack

That said, the loading is done via the init.lua file so if you have custom layouts you could load the file there easily.

sounds good!

18:19

this is the alttp in game hammer\

Image attachment

18:20

ty for taking on the pack

18:22

will the old override method work, or do I have to edit the init.lua?

You should be able to use the same method, I think you'd have to copy the init.lua file and edit your override version.

18:25

If I understand how overrides work.

18:26

I don't foresee having to change the init.lua at this point any further, unless the rando adds some crazy new modes.

18:26

That said, I think they are planning keysanity at some point in the future...

fingers crossed haha

18:31

there was some mapping being done for entrance randomizer

Oh geez, I can't even imagine that for the combo rando.

18:35

Hopefully the new features to help with entrance rando in LTTPR will be in place by then lol

so I'm basically done except one hurdle

18:39

my composite toggles don't seem to work the same

18:39

I didn't have to override the init at all

18:39

Image attachment

18:40

// Shovlute { "name": "ShovLute", "type": "composite_toggle", "codes": "Shovlute", "item_left": "shovel", "item_right": "flute", "images": [ { "left": false, "right": false, "img": "images/ShovluteYY.png", "img_mods": "@disabled" }, { "left": true, "right": false, "img": "images/ShovLuteYN.png" }, { "left": false, "right": true, "img": "images/ShovLuteNY.png" }, { "left": true, "right": true, "img": "images/ShovluteYY.png" } ] },

18:41

I guess this is customization support at this point

Yeah, that might be related to the fact that the shovel and flute are progressive items with the extra duck status indicator and such.

18:44

I'm not sure if composite_toggle works with progressive items, the existing ones for bow/silvers and the boomerangs the items involved are toggles.

ohhh good point

18:45

the fire rod used to have the alias "frod" which broke that one. that's probably enough of a lead to fix all of the issues

18:47

huh, nope

18:47

I'll keep hacking away, maybe I'll find a fix

18:53

figured it out - a composite toggle must be after the items it's combining in the code

18:53

I had my inserted item at the top of the item list

18:54

so ficerods worked once I moved it below firerod and icerod

Ah makes sense

minor thing I noticed as a dif between SM and ALTTP items: SM items have a loop flag, ALTTP items don't

Hmm they were probably copied from two different packs when making it I imagine.

Oracle of Ages Tracker pack: Dungeon 2 Stalfos Chest incorrectly labeled as Moblin Chest

??

@Otome Firstly, it might be better to put that in the Oracles discord Secondly, it might be better to convey that more politely Thirdly, there isn't a Moblin Chest on the OoA tracker in D2 (edited)

I think you are misinterpreting the chest names

11:59

That's Moblin Chest

Image attachment

12:03

If you're talking about the chest in the basement room with the Stalfos, that's Basement minecart chest (edited)

Image attachment

oh

@Hamsda Not sure if this was an intentional change or an oversight, but now when you mark off Door of Time: Open Sesame, it no longer toggles on the captured Mater Sword.

yes intentional to support ages

16:10

the swords are mostly useless, the thing in ToT is a toggle for "time travel"

Not really useless - a LOT of Adult checks don't show up if you don't have the sword marked.

literally 0 of them are reliant on the sword

23:16

that is the entire point of the giant code change i made for starting age

23:17

prep if someone ever takes the time to make ms shuffle happen

@Hamsda Fire Temple Flare Dancers is a hintable check, not sure if you knew about that

Don't you have to beat flare dancers in order to access vanilla hammer chest? And isn't vanilla hammer chest already markable?

yes that hint is referring to the hammer chest

Oof, my bad, thought it was referencing the one near the entrance

"High in the Fire Temple..." doesn't reference the battle on the bottom floor, lol.

Fire Temple is high up on a mountain

except it is in the depths of that mountain the hammer chest is layout wise in the volcano in DMC and the scarecrow in the other volcano

21:51

but yeah, that is already captureable (is that even a word), we're kinda getting off topic (edited)

OMG I just now realized the two "peaks" of the Fire Temple are those two volcanoes... bigjLUL

bigjLUL

The Twin Peaks of Kilimanjaro.

1

1

Not sure if I'm in the right place, I'm new here. I'm playing Super Metroid and LTTP using the Flek / Ninban / Gigatex pack, and I see Speed Booster in two places on the Norfair layout. I looked at the package and it appears to be a problem in locations.json:

line 1547: { "map": "norfair", "x": 984, "y": 212 }

This is the wave beam location. (edited)

That looks right Is there a map_locations line before that?

yes, at 1536. it's followed by one map: metroid and two map: norfair

Screenshot the entire area that you're talking about

20:25

Also paging @Dorkmaster Flek

you mean the JSON or the map?

Both

Image attachment

20:34

Not sure how to provide a good screenshot of this. This is the speedbooster in the wrong location. It's layered below the Wave Beam, so it's only visible if "show all" is unchecked.

Image attachment

20:35

There's some mention of something similar in the chat from 9/26/2019 (edited)

Thanks, looks like a duplicate entry. I'll remove that extra speed booster location overlapping the wave beam.

(edited)

I was mostly focused on updating the pack format to be the new way and adding autotracking support, so I didn't go back over the existing locations/maps at all.

06:06

Also I never use the individual zone maps, just the full one, so I never noticed.

@MuffinJets Could you please use a copy of the map image that is nearest neighbour/integer upscaled so that it isn't blurry/out of focus looking? Metroid Zero Mission package. (edited)

That's actually my next objective I have higher quality map images, I'm gonna remap all the checks in the process

1

@Dorkmaster Flek many locations in ALttP where you can view an item before obtaining it, don't seem to have logic applied to them when you specify an item for that location. For example Lumberjack Ledge, Desert Ledge, Cave 45 and possibly others will remain blue where as the Lake Hylia Island will turn Red if you specify an item for there and don't meet the requirements to access it. ALttP/SM Crossover Tracker Also you could replace the ALttP background imagery with the copies used in EmoSaru's ALttP package which I (and another) helped her source, it doesn't have those ugly seams throughout it and you won't have to adjust the position of any item markers/fiddly work. (edited)

@Rocher I'm unsure if you are aware, but your Aria of Sorrow randomizer tracker looks broken on my end now. Didn't know if you had an idea as to why when I haven't seen this on other packs yet.

Image attachment

Looks like a DPI scaling issue.

I don't recall changing any of my scaling settings...ever on this desktop. It has stayed at 100% scaling, 1920x1080

07:26

Is there an easy way to fix this?

https://discordapp.com/channels/386961931988369418/386961931988369421/561097841519493140

Oh ok. I ll definitely fix it next week. There is an upcoming tournament so it will be a good time to do so

I'm more curious about...well, why the pack broke and how to fix. I don't ever recall encountering this issue when I worked with other packs from a development standpoint.

07:31

Not the temporary DPI awareness thing

I have no idea. This pack is pretty old so the update is well needed

Fair enough. Hopefully you are using version control to work on this pack.

@Nicholas Steel Seems to be a bit of a weird quirk in the way visible but not obtainable logic works, I'll fix that and bring it up with Saru. For the LTTP overworld images, that's fair but I'll have to add the Samus helmet portal indicators. Those are baked into the images.

Oh, I didn't realize that those were built in to the image. (edited)

It's just a bit of extra work. It will look better, you're right.

It’s not a weird quirk. It’s working as intended, although there should perhaps be a warning in the developer console if you apply { } to a location instead of s section.

That would be helpful for debugging, thanks for explaining.

There are a few spots like that in Ham's OoTR pack - most capture spots go from blue to red (and get hidden if you aren't displaying all locations) when you mark what's there if you can't collect it yet, but some stay blue on the map even after being captured. On the end-user side, it feels a bit buggy to me, but if that's deliberate, ok.

Well no, it's deliberate in the precise way that it works in the program. The pack authors (myself included) just did it incorrectly.

10:33

All the spots should be able to turn red once you mark the visible item if you can't get it yet.

Main one I know of in that pack is OoT Item/Song, but I think there are one or two other ones that come up less often.

@Hamsda read from here onwards https://discordapp.com/channels/386961931988369418/386968253991223308/675728652545032193 Regarding Capture locations remaining blue after specifying an item for the location, instead of changing to indicate rechability. (edited)

Comp Grave has the same issue. (Just noticed while playing)

How do I get a pack added?

You have a pack actually finished that’s actually ready for public consumption, that you’re willing to provide support for and keep up to date, and then you let me know. Then I let you start the process, and then I do final approval at the end. Also, you ask questions about pack creation and modification in #customization-support. (edited)

@Dorkmaster Flek Consider making these 2 locations Capturable. Wrecked Ship item can be viewed without Speed Booster but requires it to access the item. Norfair item you can stand on the ledge by the door and shoot it to reveal if it's worth getting or not (i realize this is the weakest of the 2 suggested changes). I dunno what the logical requirements are for getting the Norfair item, just frustrating walljumping? :P Also sorry for the ping in the wrong channel (#general-support). (edited)

Image attachment

WS reserved tank should be capturable...

09:01

Do you have the latest version of the pack?

09:01

The other location is not capturable. If you can access that room, you can get the item. There's no point in making it capturable.

Actually, you're right it IS capturable but it defaults to a inaccessible colour instead of Blue.

Well it is inaccessible by default...

09:02

Once you have enough to access WS and defeat Phantoon, it should turn blue if you don't have speed. (edited)

Afaik Capturable locations should be Blue and only check for accessibility once an item is specified.

No, the location is blue if you can see it but can't get it.

09:03

You can't see it by default.

(otherwise you can't tell without clicking every red square which are and aren't capturable locations)

That's how capturable locations work in EmoTracker.

Hmmm, okay.

What purpose does it serve to have it blue at the beginning? You can't get to it to check it.

Took me awhile to realize that capturable ≠ blue too lol

The colour is based on the access rules. Red = completely inaccessible, both for seeing and getting.

I was mislead by the several locations in ALttPR's tracker that start off blue since they're Sphere 0 checks. And I can confirm having access to Wrecked Ship and the defeat of Phantoon makes it appear Blue. (edited)

Yes, those are see-able at the beginning.

09:07

The Norfair room below ice, if you can access that room you can get the item. Wall jumps are assumed that you can do them for all SM logic even on normal mode.

Okay, thanks for the answers.

09:09

Since I use the Auto Tracker I may just not be paying attention whenever it turns blue or I often had the required items to access the item so it'd immediatly go Red > Green. (edited)

Going from red to green is definitely the most common case.

09:12

Going to blue requires you to have the specific combination to see the spot, but not whatever the key thing is to actually get it.

09:13

So for WS reserve, you have to be missing speed specifically.

09:13

It'll come up, but less often.

Is it possible to have capturable locations be ignored by the Auto Tracker until an item is specified or the item has been obtained? That way if it's a junk item people can mark it off without the Auto Tracker resetting it back to unobtained later... (edited)

I think the standard way is to just manually mark it as cleared?

09:25

Right click IIRC?

09:25

It should not update that location if it's been modified by the user.

09:27

It will be unmarked again if you reset the tracker for example, but it shouldn't unmark it via autotracking while it's running AFAIA.

Okay... I'll try to pay more attention next time, iirc the Zelda: A Link to the Past Randomizer was undoing my changes to blue locations when using the auto tracker but that was a few EmoTracker versions ago so the behaviour may have changed since then (I'm not 100% sure if the behaviour has changed since I don't play just ALttPR much anymore). (edited)

Oh the autotracking logic may have updated in a newer pack version.

09:35

Not sure about the official LTTPR pack, but that's where I got that bit from so it's there now.

09:35

When it goes to update a location, it checks if the location has been modified by the user.

Okay thanks.

Right clicking to clear a location is respected by the LTTP autotracker. Clicking on chests is not. (edited)

That might be what I had issues with at the time then, and maybe not blue locations. Or something, I dunno, it was too long ago. (edited)

@Dorkmaster Flek it could be useful for the maridia sand pit items to be capturable, since often you'll see something you want to grab later. possibly Missile (pink Maridia) too, since it's visible without speed booster, and snail clip isn't required in normal logic

I'll mess with that. I suppose it would be useful for hard mode logic. (edited)

13:07

On normal logic, you have to have gravity to get in there so you can always just get the items.

pink Maridia

13:07

not sandpits, aqueduct

^ re: the sand pit specifically.

13:08

Although I guess there's nothing stopping you from doing a partial suitless on normal, so what the hey.

oh, the sand pits

The aqueduct one, sure

there's absolutely no situation in which you will ever be in the sand pits in normal logic without having gravity, which makes all of them completely accessible

Correct

"sequence break capturable" is bad form i'd argue

Could be useful in hard mode, or if you want to check what's there with suitless on normal.

13:09

Yes it would still be inaccessible, but I can mark it as a capture spot.

that's fair in itself i suppose

You can still mark the spot if it's inaccessible if you show all locations.

which you'll already be doing if you're breaking logic willingly

Most likely yeah

13:11

It should show up as a sequence break on normal if you have the suitless gear from hard more logic. (edited)

it's not about being able to get the sand pit items, it's about it often being inefficient to grab the items right away

Oh I see what you mean

13:17

You want to remember and come back later?

yeah

13:17

may as well make them capturable for that purpose

Fair enough

"sequence break capturable" is bad form i'd argue

@Natalie Not really, capturable is basically independet from accessibilty. It's still up to the runner if he wants to capture or not.

Sure, it doesn't change what colour it shows up.

13:19

I'll make those spots capturable.

13:21

So basically all the sand pit spots, and the aqueduct missile?

yeah

13:25

maybe the missile should be blue on normal logic? (if it's possible to differentiate). I'm not sure

13:26

and I don't know if yellow (since it's glitch accessible) overrides blue

I'd have to test that to be sure

13:32

I think yellow takes priority?

13:32

The aqueduct missile would be blue on both if you don't have speed no?

the snail clip is in hard logic

13:34

looks like yellow does indeed take priority

Makes sense, if you can sequence break to it, you can do more than just see it.

yeah, it does seem like the better option. but as a newer player it was probably a little confusing for me

13:37

good motivation to learn glitches though

Yeah, you just gotta remember that sequence break implies viewable.

While I don't enforce hard rules on this stuff, I would strongly recommend against co-opting the meaning of sequence break in cases like this...

"outside logic"?

13:43

If we're referring to the placement logic in a rando.

I just mean that inspectable has a particular meaning, and that it's already one of the more confusing ones for people to learn about. Using sequence break when it means inspectable is only going to create questions you're going to have to answer more often.

"show higher logic as sequence breaks" may be a pack-specific solution in this specific situation

That could be a setting that the pack creator adds in something like a settings popup

with how much content is breakable simply by using higher logic, this would cut down on a lot of "how do I get X"s from people who aren't truly prepared for it

yeah, that setting may be the best solution here

14:03

for new players, knowing what's inspectable in logic is very handy. for somewhat more experienced players, knowing what's sequence breakable is more important, since for efficiency's sake you're generally sequence breaking any nearby checks in SM

Well the priority of yellow vs blue is not in the pack control AFAIK.

14:04

That's a core logic thing.

14:04

Knowing what locations are capturable is just going to be familiarity as you learn the rando.

I understood Natalie to be suggesting adding that toggle as a new setting

You would have to change accessibility rules for sequence breaks to reference the state of an object used for configuration

14:05

toggling that object would in turn explicitly allow/deny all otherwise "in breakable logic" sequence breaks

14:06

the effect of having it off would simply be that nothing ever appears sequence-breakable

It's possible I'm misunderstanding the intent here. If something is truly accessible, then it should be accessible at the appropriate level. Adding a capture spot because people don't always grab it is fine.

14:07

If it's actually just inspectable, that's what I'm against treating as a sequence break. (edited)

oh, I was just thinking of blue vs yellow priority

14:07

the issue is when it's both

14:08

a spot that's inspectable in normal logic and accessible in hard

There are several items in SM in the crossover which are visible on the normal logic but accessible on the hard logic with the same loadouts

This is precisely what settings objects are used for.

14:08

Make the logic a setting, and test for the appropriate level in your accessibility rules. (edited)

Yeah it has that already, I think the issue is they want the option for whether or not it displays as a sequence break on the easier difficulty.

The intent in my suggestion is to provide a settings object to allow disabling the display of higher-logic sequence breaks, so that these objects appear as inspectable blue rather than breakable yellow

I feel like that complicates the access logic too much for too little benefit, and discourages people from learning new tricks?

Okay, that's not gonna happen.

The player should just then know to toggle the Logic Level during gameplay to see what’s different.

I mean for the pack to implement, not as a core feature

I know. The best you can do is visibility rules filtering, and that directly address the issue in this case. (edited)

14:10

I'm not adding anything core, and I don't think there's a great way to do it otherwise.

People will always refuse to learn new tech, and it has nothing to do with the tracker

14:12

Remember that you guys have to deal with someone who says walljumping shouldn't be in the Normal logic

Auto-tracking is a secondary feature, so, I’d argue that human interaction to toggle the Logic Level during gameplay to see differences is a reasonable expectation.

Well that's different, that's access logic based on the actual rando logic.

14:12

That's obviously not going to change.

The tracker is a learning and memory aid primarily

I'd argue the priority is the reverse.

14:13

Memory aide first, learning aide second.

That has always been my contention as well.

“Walljumps shouldn’t be in Normal” is an issue with the game design, not EmoTracker’s design.

Learn by playing and by asking questions in the game discord.

14:14

When people see something is possible on the tracker, it spawns questions about the game.

1

14:14

That is a good thing.

I think we can safely ignore the anti-walljump people here

Yeah that's a completely different issue, nm that.

14:15

I think if it shows up as yellow, you're probably going to take a look and see it's capturable. I think it's just a learning step.

ideally we'd have a way to indicate a spot is both inspectable and sequence breakable, but short of adding another color to confuse things further for new players, I imagine that's not happening

Off to work. Laters!

yeah, setting it to capturable would certainly help

Yes I'm definitely adding the capture flag.

14:16

That's fine, I just don't want to add a separate setting for whether or not to show logic breaks which adds even more cases to the access logic. (edited)

14:17

If people don't want to learn the logic break tricks, they can ignore the yellow squares imo. (edited)

14:17

I certainly ignore some of them.

yeah, I think hiding all yellows would be going too far. a setting just for priority between blue and yellow would technically be a correct solution, but that's probably more effort that it's worth for 2 (I think) total locations

14:18

well 3 I guess, it's just this spot and the two after-gauntlet spots

14:21

hm, the logic in this game hurts my brain

14:22

I guess that's why I play it

The after gauntlet minor item spots, you can check if you have PBs.

14:48

They are capturable currently

yeah, I just mean they're the only other spot I can think of that can be both inspectable and sequence breakable

Missile under crumble bridge is in that category, but the quick drop is above even Hard logic. Croc Escape

And there's things that are obtainable, but doing so is a softlock. Sporespawn supers without morph, Wave beam morphless without a way back to/through the gate, etc.

(those should never be shown, frankly)

There are cases where knowing about collectable softlocks is useful in multiworld. If the item is for another player, you can collect it for them, reset out of the softlock, and they still have it. Complete logic break, but it beats sitting around in bk mode.

I know this is minor, but would be more for convenience, can we get Skull woods keysanity tracker to show 6 chests in the main dungeon to account for pinball room? This is on the official emotracker lttp pack

I thought that had been fixed a while back... I will double check tonight.

Many thanks

I'm using Berzerker's package for ALttP Multiworld and the Keysanity Map Auto-Tracker keeps thinking I have Silvers when I have no bow

01:15

I turn off the bow but after a while it re-enables.

01:22

I believe this also happens with regular Bonta v31.

Anything that doesn’t use progressive bows will have this issue.

Thanks, for the answer (edited)

@Dorkmaster Flek Issue with SMZ3 v10.2 logic that carried over to your pack. Botwoon etank should not be in logic with this setup. Needs Ice OR Speed+Grav OR portal access. canDefeatBotwoon is missing the grav suit requirement for using speed underwater. (edited)

Image attachment

counter: you can reach botwoon without speed by using mochtroids to clip

Without ice?

oh, without ice (edited)

21:57

yeah that puts a rock in the gears then

Reposte!

22:10

Yeah that looks legit, thanks!

Had someone today with grav suit at botwoon and flippers at aqueduct missile. Since you can't snail clip without grav either, getting ice was the only logical option. Thankfully it was available after a lava dive, but it could have just as easily been in Swamp or GT. The spoiler "playthrough" didn't expect him to get it. If you can get to dark world, there are fake flipper options to get to the portal, so could potentially be a yellow square in that case, but as far as I understand yellow squares aren't really a thing on the SM side in Hard.

Actually one sec while I double check that...

22:12

Ah, you're on hard mode.

22:12

That's why.

22:12

You have spring ball.

22:12

That means you can spring ball jump.

22:13

Hi jump + spring ball jump + grapple

Yeah. Can get to the mocktroid hall no problem. That's where it deadends.

Right that's just for getting up there...

22:14

Ah okay, yeah I see the missing piece.

22:14

Ice or speed or Maridia portal, but speed needs gravity.

22:15

So it should be ice or (speed and gravity) or Maridia portal.

And like I said, this is something that's wrong in total's code, and just got carried over to your pack.

Oh so that's actually accurate to the randomizer logic?

22:22

Hmm...

22:22

That's a tricky scenario then. The pack should reflect the randomizer logic.

22:24

Are you people still banging out basic logic problems? ..Did they ever fix backdoor access rules to Aqueduct et al to account for soup or peanut butter?

(edited)

Leno and HalfARebel are working on a logic overhaul that fixes the many issues with Maridia, and will add a third logic tier, but it's not implemented in any live release yet.

..that's still in the works? ..How long has it been now <.<

Well the issue is the tracker should show you what the randomizer allows as possible, so as of right now it's technically correct?

Just checked and the above issue is still in the v11 beta, so I don't think total has actually added any of the fixes. (edited)

I mean if the randomizer allows it, I feel like we have to show it for now. Once that logic overhaul gets implemented, I can match it.

making it accurate to rando logic is probably the better choice here

Fair enough. It's a pretty rare scenario, since the randomizer seems to prefer ice or portal over springball access.

that way you can say "that's literally impossible, we know it's broken, wait for v15"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

rather than "we don't know why you're out of things to check, show us your spoiler log" i don't have one "well make one next time smh"

Hopefully v11.x, v12 at worst.

Yeah that's unfortunate, but I think matching the rando logic should be priority #1 and be less confusing.

"how do I get to X" is a lot easier to answer

Agreed. Hopefully that will be added to the new version Soon

Soon

22:35

Admittedly when I took over managing the pack, I did not go over the existing logic with a fine toothed comb.

can't wait for the next seed that locks a crystal medallion and aqueduct escape behind BREAK FREE

I could write up a PR if I was feeling ambitious. Maybe total will actually notice it if the PR is for v11 instead of 10.2

(at least they removed that completely free strat)

@Hamsda Was looking at the pack's Readme tonight, You will find the Song of Time as a child to open the Door of Time / The Door of Time starts open and you can immediately go adult probably need to be reworded for Start As Adult scenarios.

Sorry is this was brought up already, but the Aria of Sorrow tracker appears to be in a perpetual state of "update available".

@Rocher You have a version mismatch between your package and the repository.

wait what

11:37

i think i managed to do that correctly i ll correct that asap

@Dorkmaster Flek I found another little one: Norfair Missile (lava room) should be marked as observable/capturable without morph

Thanks!

15:43

I'm actually planning to do a full look-over of the entire logic now that the v11 beta is in the home stretch apparently.

15:44

I'm gonna go through the new randomizer codebase and make sure all the logic matches the new version.

15:46

My intention is if a location is in logic for hard mode but not normal, it should show up as yellow in normal logic.

15:50

Oh I see, it's not capturable at all currently.

15:50

Sure that makes sense.

@Darkened5ky I found a thing: when you update the trading sequence item from the town flower, the "get Town Flower" check on Windfall Island (Sidequests) unchecks.

I'll have to look at that

@Hamsda i can't access the settings for shop/tokensanities is this a problem on my end and if so, how can i fix it?

Image attachment

You might have an override exported from a previous version of the pack.

perfect tysm

@SauceRelic What do these item graphics on your Metroid Prime tracker represent? https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/793135280569465796/C997E8764DA8DB3076E0B66664CA3C24F830059E/ https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/793135280569466706/E03FF3D1C76E44500698CE7777BC813DF4849077/ https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/793135280569467631/7BAD5FDD11749A9A8F5260633166B8E7BB30D605/ Also, why is there no Super Missile to toggle? Is it just not required anywhere to progress? (edited)

08:54

Image attachment

08:55

With that 3rd image is it Multi-Missile, Electric, Ice and Fire Beams? (edited)

08:58

Oh and what's this symbol mean that you can apply to beams/multi-missiles? Is it to mark that you've found its optional upgrade? (edited)

Image attachment

if they have sensible names, just hover over them for the tooltip

That's... an incredibly long delay for the tooltips. I didn't even know Emotracker had them.

its intentional

09:25

you can enable fast tooltips

Ah okay, thank you.

09:27

That 3rd images set of icons are the only icons that don't quite have a self explanatory description in the tooltip.

If the item tooltips didn't answer everything: Bombs Thermal Visor Xray visor Charge beam Wave beam Ice beam Plasma beam Easy toggle for the artifact hints, makes all locations blue so you can set the item Yes that symbol means the optional upgrades, that's also how you toggle Super missiles for Charge Beam I used the models for the ingame pickups instead of HUD elements because it was easier to capture straight versions of the models (HUD is curved with the visor). Thermal visor model is identical to the xray so i edited it red

18:55

Hope that answers everything @Nicholas Steel

Thank you, that does explain it all thanks. Someone was streaming a randomizer to me and I had totally forgotten how Super Missiles worked in the Prime games (that you charge your beam first then press the Missile button) (edited)

22:26

The Charge beam Wave beam Ice beam Plasma beam seem to be using the tooltip from the badge you can toggle with right-clicking, rather than the base items tooltip (assuming there are badge/non-badge tooltips for each of those items) which is why those were hard to interpret. (edited)

so I was looking at the major glitch pack (non-keysanity version) by @deserteagle417 and I noticed that even after giving myself every single item on the tracker, Trinexx and Laser Bridge don't get turned to green from yellow.

In OWG or MG?

hmm. I don't see the OWG pack anywhere. Using the ALttPR Glitched Modes package

It's owg by default. You change to mg with the gear above the items. If you've not done that, then this seems to be in OWG. Can you try changing to MG and see if that turns it green? (edited)

okay it's in OWG. And that's a fancy way to change the logic. Didn't realize it worked that way

05:51

MG turns it green

Okay, thanks! This helps me find the problem. I think something might've gotten a little messed up when adding the MG support then. I'll check this out when I get home from work.

1

05:54

TR is fun in glitched modes with all the different ways you can access it lol

so I also checked the keysanity version of the OWG. There it is green with all small keys added

Interesting... Well that's good to know because it means the problem should only be in one spot then. Thanks for checking that!

@SauceRelic The Sunchamber Artifact of the Wild was able to be accessed from the entrance that's normally vined off in the vanilla Metroid Prime game after beating the boss... negating the Spider Ball requirement that your tracker was insisting was needed o_O (edited)

06:45

Oh, there's a trick for it but why is it a trick when you can just... go there?

You'd have to ask in the randomizer discord, i did a few runs myself but am not very experienced with small logic details

13:56

Most location logic is pulled straight from the source code of the randomizer

13:57

There are a few exceptions where i found different ways to do things myself

@Nicholas Steel there hasn't been an update in a while, and Bash's dev version of 2.0 is available for testing

On Hamsda's maptracker, how come the dots for all the dungeons disappear when "ignore all logic" is enabled?

It probably marks them all as inaccessible? Since there's no logic it can't tell what is and isn't accessible. So you'd have to press F11 to show all locations and then enable the "Always allow chest manipulation" setting which has no hotkey. (edited)

22:10

I don't know why the package wouldn't just mark everything as accessible instead though. (edited)

i honestly have no idea how "ignore all logic" works

ignore all logic should basically treat everything as accessible

22:44

I'll have to look into why this would happen with hamsda's pack

might be because of the "weird" way i do the hiding for mq/vanilla

23:10

since i rewrote the invis thing during the update period where it changed

23:12

yeah pretty sure thats it

23:13

I can just whip together a quick regex that will mass replace that stuff at some point to fix it

23:14

hmm actually not quite sure if that would work even if i switched ThinkMultiDorm

ThinkMultiDorm

23:14

I'll fiddle around with it at some point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

it may be a conflict with visiblity rules

23:20

I'll have to check

23:22

Yes, I believe this is on me.

23:26

This will be fixed in the next release.

Emosaru, can you please consider changing the "Escape" chests for Hyrule Castle so that 3 of them don't expect you to have the lamp if you have Power Gloves? Maybe rename the categories as well to something like: Castle: 3 chests Escape (Dark Room): 1 chest Escape: 3 chests Sanctuary: 1 chest Without separating the 3 chests behind the bombable wall from the 1 in the dark, the tracker ends up incorrectly indicating they require a sequence break/lamp even when you have Power Gloves. Edit: This suggestion is based on how the Keysanity package presents the dungeon item locations, which is way superior (but not perfect either) to how the non-keysanity package presents locations. (edited)

This goes against the theme of literally every other dungeon where the chest count matches the number of items in the dungeon.

The reason I brought it up was because earlier today we had a person post an image of the tracker asking what to do next, because none of the locations were orange nor green. (edited)

07:52

This was the image they shared: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/307863292192489473/685461426600411154/alttpremo.png

Embedded image

07:53

And it confused some of the people offering support because of what Yellow is supposed to represent. (edited)

Desert palace does the same thing, btw, if you don't have boots. From my understanding, the tracker isn't meant to replace game knowledge

1

people who are failing to provide support for that tracker image are definitely lacking game knowledge

yellow means two different things for overworld checks and dungeons

The tracker should show what you can and can't do Deserteagle, otherwise why have logic in the first place?

Escape is a dungeon

08:25

We're not going to explain this to you again

If there are other situations similarly handled incorrectly in the tracker than imho they should be changed. Also the Super Metroid / A Link to the Past Randomizer Crossover tracker handles it worse with having every location in Hyrule Castle & Escape requiring the Lamp before the location turns from yellow to green. (edited)

The first reply to the user that posted that in the alttpr discord was to do back of escape. I don't see how it's such a big issue

The issue is that Nicholas doesn't want to learn, honestly.

Every dungeon acts the same way, yellow means you can get some checks but maybe not all depending on dark rooms / key layout etc. Anyone that uses the tracker will need to learn that sometime

Also the Super Metroid / A Link to the Past Randomizer Crossover tracker and the A Link to the Past Randomizer non-keysanity packages handle it worse with all 6 items in Hyrule Castle requiring the Lamp before the location turns green.

08:32

The Kesanity package splits it in to Back, Escape and Sanctuary sections with Escape consisting of 4 checks that are all marked as requiring the lamp while none of the Back nor Sanctuary checks are marked as requiring the Lamp. This is better, but still not a perfect reflection of logic requirements. (edited)

08:34

My original suggestion to split 3 of the chests in to a 4th section was based on how the Keysanity package was presenting the checks. (overall the Keysanity package better conforms to logic for dungeon item locations) (edited)

08:40

Lastly I tend to use the Keysanity package with Auto Tracking and tell it I already have all the Small Keys, even when I'm not playing keysanity because of that package being better at indicating whether or not I can get to a location.

Hi @Nicholas Steel. My pack is designed around the concept that it should be consistent and quick to track for racers, and additionally that I expect people can actually play the game and interpret what the tracker is telling them. It’s fine for people to have questions and then ask in the game discord - they just learned. You keep suggesting this stuff, and I keep saying no. Please learn.

The information being shown in keysanity is fundamentally different. It shows every chest because every chest is an item check. In non-keysanity, it shows the number of non-dungeon items that can be found. Breaking it up in the same way for non-keysanity doesn't make sense. (edited)

09:23

Escape is 6 items total, that's what the tracker shows. The logic for whether that section is accessible has to be what you need logically to access every chest contained within that count.

09:24

The count you have in non-keysanity is supposed to reflect how many non-dungeon items you have left to find.

09:28

I can't speak for the regular LTTPR, but I'm reorganizing the logic for the combo rando pack for the v11 rewrite and all three are necessary for escape. (edited)

If it puts a small key in the back you would need gloves

09:31

unless the combo rando will never do that

See this is why this is confusing.

09:31

I knew there was a reason all three were in there.

09:33

You always need lamp to get everything, because dark cross requires lamp. The back three can be gloves OR lamp + small key but that depends on key placement which is of course random.

09:33

Hence, you need bombs, gloves, and lamp to 100% guarantee that you can get everything in any seed. (edited)

So it is correct to only show green if you have lamp and gloves. The mentality of "I'm only going to check a location if it's green or orange" is the only thing that needs to change here.

1

Yes.

09:36

If we showed the separate sections of chests with different access rules, then you would see this breakdown but again as I said above, this doesn't make sense for non-keysanity, and that's the only thing the combo rando has atm. (edited)

09:37

Also if your mentality is "I'm not going in here unless it's green", you're going to inevitably get stuck. Sometimes the logic requires you to double dip a dungeon to obtain progression from an earlier chest that is accessible even if the rest of the chests aren't. (edited)

1

When I said that no locations were marked green or orange, I meant the text for every location in the described situation is either yellow or red (and the side bar red when looking at a pinned location), even for locations you can access (which should have white text). The square on the map would of course remain Yellow if you don't meet the requirements to get/check every item for one reason or another. Only the items you don't meet the requirements for should have the yellow text and red side bar when viewing the details of a location by clicking or double clicking a location. Sorry about the confusion, and I realize that "it should be consistent and quick to track for racers" will still trump my proposal. (edited)

Right, but as I explained, you don't meet the requirements for "the 6 items in escape as a whole" section unless you have all three. (edited)

10:29

Escape is a weird special case because it has two different entrances basically.

10:29

You just have to learn this as you get familiar with the game.

1

SauceRelic, I've noticed that the first item in Wrecked Ship (Cargo Freight Elevator to Deck Gamma) isn't indicated as being available when it seemingly should be, and there doesn't seem to be any tricks that'd need to be enabled to make it available.

01:22

Image attachment

01:23

it doesn't need Gravity Suit to reach (nice early Energy Tank in vanilla game). (edited)

I'm not completely familiar with the ettiquete for a report like that, should I ping them or not?

usually yeah, just so we notice for sure

@SauceRelic Please see my above report.

IMO partially clearable dungeons should always be orange on the map, not yellow.

That's partially dependent on the pack creator, but also pretty difficult to do if you're stacking all the checks on one location

11:21

Precedent is a huge factor too

11:21

Partially clearable dungeons are yellow because they've been yellow (edited)

11:22

But depending on how the dungeon is randomized, or how many tricks you know, you potentially could kill a dungeon's boss without full-clearing the dungeon

11:22

Which would mean that yellow is appropriate

my understanding is that partially clearable should be orange (e.g., Eastern Palace/PoD without Bow), but any legal sequence break makes it yellow, which overrides orange (edited)

^ which is a big part of the problem. If you have bombs and can navigate in the dark, you can always take a guard key to the back, get the random key, and full clear escape in a single go.

It should be red if all sections are inaccessible, otherwise orange if at least one section is completely inaccesible, otherwise yellow if no section is inaccessible but at least one is only sequence breakable, green if all sections are accessible, gray when all sections are cleared. The problem stems from the fact that the way dungeons are presentend in a lot of packs (one section with multiple chests). It's faster to clear for racers, but results in a loss of precision regarding accessibility. Some package devs abuse the sequence break color (yellow) to show partial accessibility, which is atm is communicated poorly. If you are not racing/timing and try to casually learn the rando, then I recommend just looking for a pack that lists every chest in detail.

I think the only way to separate chests into sections would be to include the extra chests for map/compass/big key, which probably isn't going to happen in the existing packs. but a separate pack for learning could probably work if someone is willing to put the work in

^ That's the issue with separate sections. It doesn't make sense for non-keysanity with the way dungeon items are handled in LTTP.

13:41

In keysanity, it makes sense to show every individual chest.

13:42

It would be actively less useful for most people to have separate sections for the non-keysanity mode. (edited)

Building logic to say what you can and can't access based on which keys you used and where is a royal nightmare even on paper, especially when the dungeons can become nonlinear by doing so.

13:55

So LttP doesn't.

Well the rando itself assumes worst case scenario key usage, so you can't softlock yourself. That isn't the issue with the tracker, the issue is the fact that the dungeon items are mixed into all the chests but the tracker only wants to show the non-dungeon item count because that's the useful information. (edited)

14:07

So the entire count is in a single section, but the access rules for that section can't give you that granular breakdown for exactly what parts you can and can't access in the moment.

14:07

That breakdown only makes sense for keysanity where literally every chest is a "non-dungeon item" in that sense of the term. (edited)

For example in Dark Palace Keysanity instead of lumping 13 chests together they'd be split up in to Lamp Required section and separately a Bow Required section with the boss being in a Bow & Hammer Required section and finally a 4th Section that has no requirements other than access to the dungeon (edited)

I mean, you could always build such a pack (edited)

04:57

That's one of the best parts about emotracker

That is exactly what I'm doing for keysanity support for the pack.

07:13

I don't know how far out this idea is for the rando itself, but as part of the v11 rewrite I'm reorganizing the pack to make sure all the logic tweaks are up to date and adding the framework for keysanity support.

Emosaru, can you please explain to me why the Keysanity package splits up chests (ignoring boss rewards) in to sections for places like Hyrule Castle, Tower of Hera, Agahnim's Tower, Thieves Town and various other dungeons while other dungeons have all the chests lumped together in a single section like Dark Palace, Turtle Rock, Ice Palace etc.? I feel like there is something I'm missing, something that you may believe is obvious, that has led me down the path of basically harrassing you about the presentation of the chests. (edited)

Re: POD specifically, the key logic is just incredibly complicated.

10:25

Case in point, currently for future keysanity support I have POD split into the following sections which I think make reasonable sense: Shooter Room, Front 3 (arena ledge, big key chest, skeleton basement), Right side 2 beyond the mimics because they're bow locked, Back 6 because you need at least 1 small key with bow + hammer OR 2 small keys on their own, and big chest on its own (plus the boss obv). (edited)

10:26

If you have some of the small keys but not all, the number of different combinations of chests you could potentially check is a bloody mess.

(edited)

10:27

You have bow + hammer and one key? Great, you could open the front door, or you could go right side and use that one key to get to the back, OR go straight to the basement and open the locked door to the boss.

10:27

Does that last one make any logical sense? Heck no, but you could do it.

10:28

I tried to split it up based on some sensible grouping as best I could, but basically most of the dungeon is not entirely in logic unless you have all the small keys.

10:29

IP and TR also have similar issues, although not quite to the extent that POD does.

10:29

POD is just a logic nightmare.

I imagine you've considered it already, but have you considered limiting grouping chests by the items required to reach them while ignoring key logic?

Well you can't ignore key logic in keysanity.

10:34

It's pretty essential.

10:35

For other dungeons like ex. swamp, it's much easier. You have that one small key, that's all you need to find.

yeah sorry, I keep thinking along the lines of being able to give each chest within a group some kinda indicator of accessibility instead of splitting everything up in to many groups. That way you could group locations by item requirements and colourize/indicate within the groupings which are accessible with the number of keys you have.

The only way to have separate indications is the separate sections/names you see.

10:39

So if ex. literally every chest has a separate indicator, they have to be their own sections basically.

Like extending the Badge system to the Chests and tying its appearance to logic rather than manually toggled by the end-user. The appearance of the badge would be configurable and for your tracker it'd be a graphic of a key or some such. (edited)

10:41

Yeah that's what I thought Dorkmaster :/

Maybe there's a way for keysanity tracker logic to pseudo-observe how many keys have been used via checks cleared?

There is not. We can check how many small keys you've found since they're consumable items marked on the tracker, but how you use them is weeeeee

11:22

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

11:25

More generally, trying to break up the dungeon into logical sections makes sense to a certain degree, but at some point it becomes untenable and you just have to rely on familiarity with the randomizer you only get by playing it. Philosophically, the tracker is supposed to be a tool of assistance that is useful to the largest portion of the audience possible. It's not supposed to be a literal training program for a brand new player.

@Nicholas Steel Dumb question: Have you seen how the definition files work and what the restrictions are? Your questions seem to indicate that you may just be basing your opinions and questions on only what the end-user can see/experience.

@Nicholas Steel You keep asking for people to build things, people keep saying why they’re not going to, and you keep bringing it up ad nauseum.

11:52

If you want the thing you want, you are welcome to build it.

11:53

My suggestion is that by the time you learn the game well enough to build it, you won’t need it, and if you took the time you’ve spent asking about it and applied it to learning the game, you probably wouldn’t need it. (edited)

11:54

As Flek has said, the key logic is crazy in places. Additionally, the only way to track it accurately, especially for those who can’t/don’t support autotracking, is to track every door you open and pot key you collect.

11:55

That is a tremendous amount of clicking and tracking overhead. How do I know? Because I prototyped it, and it sucked to use. A LOT. (edited)

11:55

Tracking is not supposed to be the main activity - playing the game is.

11:56

I swear to you that if you understand the game and can think on your own about it, what the tracker tells you is the relevant and useful information.

11:56

You used the word harassing - I don’t think you’re far off the mark, so can we please drop it? If you’d like to try building it yourself, #customization-support. Otherwise, this has gone on long enough.

MikeTrethewey: @Nicholas Steel Dumb question: Have you seen how the definition files work and what the restrictions are?

No.

MikeTrethewey: Your questions seem to indicate that you may just be basing your opinions and questions on only what the end-user can see/experience.

Yes (sorry about the erroneous ping).

EmoSaru: You used the word harassing - I don’t think you’re far off the mark, so can we please drop it? If you’d like to try building it yourself, #customization-support. Otherwise, this has gone on long enough.

Okay. (edited)

need help getting Emo tracker to work on vista, is there anyone here that can help

EmoSaru would be the only one who could answer that, it's also more of a #general-support question, not anything pack-specific. (edited)

Image attachment

@Hamsda With the tricks in your detailed logic in your maptracker, does greyed out mean i wouldn't expect to need that trick?

ye

Is there a way to save default starting settings in the Hamsda pack? Such as always starting with shopsanity/no shuffles Kokiri Sword etc.?

there's not afaik

02:20

not for any pack

I didn’t see one just thought I would make sure

You can configure the settings and then save the tracker state, creating a template you load.

02:36

There is no more automatic method.

Oh that makes so much sense ty! Also is there a way to scroll down on the tracker/hamsda pack? When playing full screen just the child map takes up the entire screen and i can't see my pins/run with the "both" map up because it wont scroll down.

all really depends on your resolution and how you size the tracker if the default doesnt work for how you wanna put it, i'd suggest rearranging things with an override i personally have it more horizontal, which is how it works best probably

Is there an easy way to make the OoT map bigger? It's so small that I literally can't read anything on it

Make the window bigger?

You're gonna have to show us a screenshot of what you mean; it might also help if you take a screenshot of your entire desktop

Image attachment

08:42

I think it's because the program doesn't respect Scaling options well? I'm on a Bootcamped Mac laptop with one of those high-res displays. I have to have Scaling set to 200% to make everything not miniscule

08:42

When I set Scaling to 100%, the map gets bigger but it makes everything else on my computer unusable.

It looks like you should create a layout override to move the Items pane up one level so that it can dock entirely on the left side of the window (edited)

I think I found the documentation on how to do this, but it doesn't say what file to edit. What file do I edit to do this?

09:49

I'm assuming application_settings.json in my Documents folder?

Well for one, the other OoT pack has a better scaled map and is more up-to-date with logic, I recommend using Hamsda's

Yup, definitely suggest giving Hamsda's a shot before diving in to overrides etc.. (edited)

Also because Hamsda has kept up with logic changes I would recommend using his over mine

Oh yeah, the Hamsada one looks much better on this display. Thanks!

Hey all. Is there a fix to this error?

Image attachment

It's in the channel topic, and #announcements, and #faq

17:53

You are running a very old version

17:53

Download and install the latest version from the website.

1

I'm guessing Check for Updates won't work? Because I just tried and it said an error occurred lmao

1

That is why a download and install is required.

1

Ok, thank you!

Eventually everyone will have 2.3.6.5 or later and that question will go away.

I'm beginning to wonder if someone isn't going around handing out the ancient version

fuck guys we've been had

3

skaiEyes

1

23:23

shut it down, SHUT IT DOWN

It wouldn't surprise me if there's a website out there mirroring the downloads and whoever maintains that website hasn't seen an update since the certificate isssue and thus never updated their website with a newer version because they are too lazy to check the Emotracker website. (edited)

That seems entirely plausible. Basically prior to a certain version, you have to manually download the current version. After that, the auto-update should work. (edited)

Sorry first time using discord so, I hope this is going in the correct section. I have a question about getting the Oracle of Ages pack to work. I have been able to click download and, have gone into the EmoTracker folder to see if the pack has downloaded at all which it did however, EmoTracker seems to be unable to use the pack. (edited)

@Herreteman bringing this to your attention

Have we determined that this is pack-specific?

00:58

It seems unlikely that one specific actively maintained pack would commit unusability on an up-to-date EmoTracker version, so I'd sooner blame something about your install environment, particularly if other packs are found to not load.

@Natalie Not sure if yours was directed at me or to something else I am not aware of since I am new to the thread.

01:19

The Oracle of Seasons pack works just fine as well as the alttp and, I had reinstalled EmoTracker.

Uh, I sent a fix for that and it was supposed to be uploaded

01:32

Guess I'll nag Jaysee a bit more since he hosts the packs for me

Should be fixed now

@Herreteman It is indeed working now. EmoTracker is able to use the pack now.

19:28

Also just wanted to say thank you as well as to all the other pack creators.

19:29

I haven't ever really used discord before but, I have used various map packs from you guys are they are all awesome!

2

T-thank you

@Dorkmaster Flek Some suggestions for SMZ3 pack. If you can get to Gold Torizo but don't have space jump (so portal access (both logics) or lava dive/ggg (hard logic)), the left side item should be a blue square. Right now, Kraid etank, most of WS/west ocean, and plasma locations stay red until you click their respective bosses with the proper equipment, but Varia suit, space jump, and Ridley etank will be green (or yellow if you don't have charge for Ridley) with the same equipment. I feel those should be consistently one way or the other, and personally I would go with green regardless, or at least yellow/orange until the boss gets clicked, since people still learning the game might not realize those are available checks. (edited)

"the right side item" is the one behind the shot blocks in the ceiling, though?

My bad, meant left side.

03:24

the missiles

GT missile is capturable already. If it's showing as yellow instead of blue, that's because you have hard mode access in normal mode. Logic break-able takes priority over captureable (yellow > blue), that's not a pack thing, that's a program thing. (edited)

05:45

The only way it shows as blue currently is if you only have LN portal access. If you're accessing via the UN elavator, you don't have any access without space jump, and unlike accessible vs logic break (green vs yellow), there is no such equivalent for "checkable" (blue). It's blue or nothing, so imo blue should only show up if you can logically access the location. This could mean checkable in hard mode without SJ however... ThinkDorm

ThinkDorm

(edited)

05:46

The rest of WS/west ocean not showing up until you kill Phantoon is something I've wondered about, the pack was already set up like that so I didn't change it, but other SM-only trackers don't seem to do that so I can see the argument. (edited)

05:49

Varia, SJ, and Ridley e-tank I think were done that way because they're right after the boss so you can't miss them and it's not confusing that they're gated by said boss. Kraid e-tank, a little less clear but I can see that argument. Plasma location is a little harder to justify imo since it's away from the boss, however if all the other locations don't wait for the boss to be dead to show then I can see the argument for consistency... (edited)

05:55

It would probably be good to change all that and make the boss gated locations consistent like you said. I'll add that to the v11 branch I've got right now, it's a full logic overhaul for the v11 rewrite with the scafolding for keysanity support.

(edited)

05:56

My understanding is v11 should be out Soon

Soon

seeing as we used it for the weekly for the first time yesterday. (edited)

When I was playing with it earlier, I specifically had it on hard with lava dive equipment but no space jump, which seems to be why it wasn't blue. Would it be possible to utilize orange squares for the boss locations? Since SM has individual squares for almost every location, there is no "partially completable" (possible exception of behind Brin reserve with speed and morph but no bombs, which iirc is one square for two locations). It's either unavailable, viewable, sequence breakable, or obtainable. (edited)

Yeah orange afaik is only for locations with multiple sections where you have access to some but not all of the sections. I can't force it orange, that's an application level thing. (edited)

12:36

Which is why it shows up on dungeon locations in LTTP primarily, as SM has almost everything as its own location like you said.

12:42

Re: GT missiles, yes currently it's only "viewable" via LN portal. I can make it viewable via Upper Norfair access on hard mode if you have no SJ though. The only way to view it via Upper Norfair is with green gate glitch, which I don't think is really reasonable for normal mode but hard mode I can see the argument. (edited)

Rekt

WS checks/Phantoon are almost equivalent to Dark World access via Aga (though it's a significant difference that Aga isn't necessarily required). Personally I'm content with the way it works right now, but if there were a specific "learning" pack, I'd hope for a separate color for "available after killing a boss"

Yeah that last thing doesn't exist.

14:13

But thinking about it like Aga1, the boss locations can exist just with no item count... ThinkDorm

ThinkDorm

14:14

That actually might make more sense, because it tells you hey this boss is accessible just like Aga1. (edited)

that ThinkDorm emote is so, so good

ThinkMultiDorm

hey @Herreteman the tracker thinks I can get deeper into D2 with no satchel or seeds, and the outside passages are closed off in dungeon entrance shuffle

Image attachment

Sorry for the late reply, I already had this fixed on my local version but I had some pending changes stockpiled for a newer version, can't really work on it right now @Sal the Dragon

fair enough, thanks for getting back to me

@Dorkmaster Flek I noticed the SMZ tracker got a vertical mode the other day, and it would automatically switch to it when the window was resized in that fashion (like anchoring it to one side of the screen so it uses half the screen size). After I updated it a moment ago that functionality seems to have vanished. No amount of resizing or moving it changes the layout away from the horizontal one. Am I missing something?

It's still there, I just tweaked it based on feedback that the map area was too small since the dock was now on the left side consuming some of the limited horizontal space. (edited)

18:40

It puts the map on top using the entire horizontal width now, with items and pinned locations stacked vertically underneath.

18:46

This is closer to what it was before I found out about the vertical specific layout feature, except the pinned locations go below the items so basically everything stacks in one vertical column. Also I removed the both games map option in that mode, because it was just way too crammed to be useful.

Ah, I see what you mean now. I probably will have to stick to the horizontal one in that case, then. In the current implementation the map shrinks too small for me to use whenever I pin anything. It's my monitor size unfortunately, I can't go much bigger without making things hard to read on my screen. And Emotracker doesn't let me shrink the item tracker icons down any further either.

Yeah it's impossible to please everyone unfortunately...

19:15

You can always make an override if you like.

I've looked into it a little, aye. The json coding is a bit daunting but I might be able to figure something out.

19:48

It's all good, I can adapt. Mainly wanted to make sure that I was just misunderstanding how the vertical mode worked, and that answers that question. Thankya.

Went for the simpler approach, actually - I just anchored to the left and then slowly expanded the window horizontally until it put Pinned Locations on the right instead of underneath. Took far less extra space than I was expecting. But I'll take it

Is there a glitched mode package that supports Inverted that I'm not seeing, or has one just not been made yet?

One hasn't been made yet, it's on my list of things to do eventually if DesertEagle doesn't get to it first

cool

In case it helps anyone else, I found an even better solution to my previous problem - scale down the item tracker icons. The Ctrl + mousewheel option can zoom in, but it can't zoom out beyond the initial setting. So shrinking the default icon sizes down to, say, half size allows the map to take up more space for easier reading, and can be temporarily reverted to the default size or bigger with the Ctrl + mousewheel method and back again once no longer needed. All it takes is a "scale": # line in the right place. For the SMZ3 map tracker, I was able to do it in the layouts/tracker.json file.

(I also realize this is more relevant to the customization support channel since that's where I found the info on how to do this in the first place, but this is where I asked about it initially.)

hey gang, just got this and I'm wondering how and where you put packs made by other people

You’re gonna have to clarify your question further, and also hope I don’t eject you for your name that I just overrode.

@ HorribleNameThatsNotAllowedHere If the distributed file is a .zip, and the root of that folder includes a manifest.json, then drop it, still zipped, into Documents/EmoTracker/packs (edited)

04:43

However if the pack creator says something like, "it's already on EmoTracker", then click the little cloud to open the Package Manager, and it'll be somewhere in that list

@MuffinJets please delete the tag in your message. I don’t want that name any more visible here than it has to be.

Shrug

(I'm pretty sure that if Discord will delete Dickbutt profile pictures, they'll completely decimate a tag like that. If it's brought to their attention.)

shrug

10:05

You have to be 13 to legally use Discord anyway, they're not obligated to do anything

There is literally a Terms of Service that Discord is in fact required to consistently uphold on their end. Instead of being apathetic, track down Discord support and report a problematic username.

Moving to #off-topic , cause it is

Booooo you guys suck.

Thonking

2

13:32

K peace

Talked to someone who had an issue with a package they were using, not sure if this is the exact chat to direct it to but wanted to mention (I didn't really explain much but i'm referring to being able to get the charge beam item) (edited)

Image attachment

@Diabetic Panda You didn't really explain what the issue is.

an item that requires morphball and bombs is showing that it can be achieved without morphball or bombs

00:27

it's specifically locked to missiles, and screw attack

Who made that pack?

saucerelic

Game, Name of Pack, Pack Author, Location Name, what it would need in addition to currently-defined rules. All useful information. Super Metroid, Super Metroid Randomizer, SauceRelic, Charge Beam, needs to include Morph & [Power] Bombs.

salute

Reading the Location data, Charge Beam does not have any local requirements. Local requirements for it and Waterway should include Morph & [Power] Bombs as a hard requirement.

00:35

The parent element is Pink Brin which includes canBombWalls && canOpenRedDoors or canUsePowerBombs. canBombWalls seems to be true if Screw, which is why Screw & Missiles is returning true.

00:38

@SauceRelic Your Super Metroid Randomizer pack needs to include can bomb and can pb or simply morph as a hard requirement for accessing Charge Beam and Waterway E-Tank.

Does the Crystal+ mean it's one of the crystals needed for Ganon's Tower in vanilla? (So 5 & 7?)

12:34

For the ALttPR pack

Ganon's tower does not require specific crystals

12:35

The pyramid fairy requires crystals 5 & 6, which are marked with the +

Okay, thanks

@Hamsda Just wondering how come the dungeons disappear when "Ignore All Logic" is enabled?

That is a bug in the core application, which I'm fixing in the next release.

thankyou

Is there a way to mark all of the skulltula's and Fary's in any of the Majora's mask trackers?

Depending on which one you're using

15:35

In any pack, if you have a location with a bunch of checks and you want to clear them all at once, right-click the check

Hello, is it normal that Emotracker just does not want to download the latest ALTTSM randomizer update ? Every time I want to do it, I have the green bar filling, and becoming back white, but the "Update available" message does not disappear... Yesterday, I didn't have any problem updating any other packages I had...

i'd guess either you have the pack unzipped (so only the zip gets updated, but emotracker still sees the old unzipped version) or the pack author made a whoopsie if there was an update recently (version mismatch resulting in emotracker always thinking theres an update)

Okay, looks like it was the unzipped solution, Didn't remember I extracted it...

09:00

Thank you very much

no problem

There appears to be some logic bugs in MuffinJets' Metroid: Zero Mission tracker. There are 4 checks (2 in Brinstar, one in Chozodia, one in Norfair) that are never in logic, no matter what else is marked.

Image attachment

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll get that fixed up as soon as I can

@Hamsda Quick question, how come you removed the pin list auto-resizing the map a few updates ago? It made it much more readable but now the pins just go offscreen

because i got a bunch of complaints about it as well

21:19

like with the size of my maps, i cant really make it work for everyone

21:19

overrides are your friend basically

@Dudude Dude The medicine doesn't show up in the "most recent" area, it's just a blank spot.

Oh thanks, I should probably go through and check them all properly.

09:08

Okay that's the only one with that error, will push a fix shortly.

the glitched mode pack doesnt seem to understand that all you need to get the chain chomp chest in TR is the moon pearl

19:12

and, realistically, cape/blue cane

19:12

or a lot of hearts and armor, i guess

so uh i found a bug for the metroid prime rando: map tracker.... should i post it here?

this is the right place for it, you might want to mention the developper so he knows sooner

@SauceRelic it appears that if morph ball is located in vanilla location with the current metroid prime map tracker, ruined shrine on the map shows that the morph ball is inaccessible. (the chest becomes greyed out) even if you have missiles.

14:36

same with morph ball bombs in vanilla (this is assuming no changes in settings)

@NemoOceansoul (Yuki Virtanen) Haven't had time to update it at all recently so it's pretty outdated atm, and it's gonna be like that until the school year is over. Once I get a chance I'll look into it

ah alright ^_^ i didnt know if you knew or not.

14:39

i was using it to help track my vanilla routing because i was curious if there was a way to efficiently route a 100% thing with the fewest revisits.

I've found a few things that don't seem to line up in terms of the Prime logic. Apologize for note noting the specifics. Funny enough I just asked about how up to date the Prime pack was VS current logic in the Prime rando discord. Glad to hear there are plans to revisit it.

@Lunar Soap the pack won't install at all, the bar just fills up and then it just asks to install again

15:09

even after a restart/uninstall

yeah i'm looking into it

It can also be caused if Pink Switch has a decompressed copy of the tracker.

the more likely cause, assuming nobody has decompressed a copy of the pack, is a version number mismatch between the repository json and the manifest. (edited)

is there a git repo or whathaveyou for the metroid prime tracker? I've got some improvements i'd like to contribute

Even better

21:44

Documents/EmoTracker/packs has all the files you need

21:45

@lakiolen

I think they meant the improvement has already been made locally

21:45

looking to do a pull request...

If that's the case ignore me

yup, already made the changes from what emotracker downloaded

You could try pinging the author of the tracker package or PM'ing them...

22:03

Usually they hang out on the discord server of the game they have a Tracker Package for (if a discord is used by that community). (edited)

I'm sorry, uh, so I'm going through a rando I generated yesterday, my tracker package is up-to-date, but my wrecked ship is showing this, despite me NOT having beaten Phantoon or marking him as beaten? The Darkmaster/ninban/gilgatex package.

Image attachment

05:11

I only noticed because I marked off the long corridor above the circled item spot

Can you provide a complete screenshot of the tracker? (edited)

Image attachment

Hmmm, that definitely looks like iamamitten has run in to a bug @Dorkmaster Flek

05:13

Does it still show those locations as accessible in the Full tab?

it does

Image attachment

I can reproduce it on my end so it's definitely an issue with the package.

oh good I was worried I'd need to reinstall the tracker

05:17

that's not fun with terrible internet

Image attachment

that's wild, remove morph ball and it stops, as well as turning croc escape's item spot blue

You'll have to wait for Dorkmaster to issue an update (or you can ignore the issue). (edited)

sorry, "Missile (above Crocomire)"

05:21

well, I reported an issue I found, so I can wait for an update

It's not a bug, you have access to Wrecked Ship via grapple.

06:02

The tracker no longer waits for Phantoon to be marked as defeated before giving WS locations as accessible for convenience.

oh

06:03

that's helpful to know, thanks

Also the reason the above Croc missile turns blue if you remove morph is because you can scout it.

06:03

You have access to Norfair portal via death mountain.

06:03

But without morph you can't actually get it.

ah yeah I always forget you can see what it is beforehand

The only spot that actually waits for the required boss to be marked as defeated is Plasma Beam, because you can actually travel up there without defeating Draygon and waste a bunch of time.

06:04

Everything else is either obviously locked or directly behind the boss.

06:05

WS was the only other thing that did this when I took over the pack, and other SM trackers don't do that in general, so I made it consistent. (edited)

06:06

In the case of WS in particular, it was actually a bit of a pain imo because you want to know at a glance what spots you have access to if you go there and beat Phantoon before deciding to commit. (edited)

06:08

Removing morph also means you don't have access to WS as well of course.

well, you'd have access to the main chamber of it

06:10

kind of, but it needs a pb to open that one door to moat

Yes that's what I was about to say.

06:11

Also you can't get through the tunnel for the one accessible item before Phantoon, nor the tunnel to his door.

yeah

06:11

but now I know why they're "available" locations, thanks

1

Ah okay, thanks Dorkmaster Flek.

Hi. Trying to use the experimental build for wind waker randomizer 1.8.0 and this is what I get in broadcast view:

Image attachment

16:56

is that something on my end or is it because it's incomplete?

That's most likely something on the pack's end. Get with the developer of the pack about that one

tbf, it IS experimental. Maybe they'll fix it when it properly updates to 1.8.0 XD

could also be intentional for chroma keying (even though NDI support exists...)

That too

I generally don't recommend pack devs set background colors on their broadcast views so that NDI works, but they did here. You can modify it to remove the background color pretty easily with an override. (edited)

@Mushrooms Are you using an old version of the pack? I removed the background color a while ago

@Darkened5ky I'm using the test version on the github page since the tracker for WWR isn't officially updated to 1.8.0 yet. The official version for 1.7.0 works fine though. According to the github page, the latest update was on the 21st of may, so I assumed the experimental branch would be fairly recent.

22:37

specifically, this: https://github.com/DualVission/Wind-Waker-Item-and-Map-Tracker

DualVission/Wind-Waker-Item-and-Map-Tracker

A Map/Item tracker for the Wind Waker Randomizer. Subject to a lot of change. - DualVission/Wind-Waker-Item-and-Map-Tracker

22:37

I might just be doing something wrong

Looks like @Dual [CDT UTC-5] (TWWR) added a pure blue background to the broadcast view. Should remove that and use NDI instead

NDI?

Man I swear there was a pinned message or something about it

22:46

https://emotracker.net/blog/2018/09/13/emotracker_2_1_release_notes/

EmoTracker v2.1 Release Notes

22:46

see the NDI Support section of this ^

22:46

It will give you a purely transparent background

22:46

it's not something you set on the pack itself, has to be set up by each user wanting it

22:47

Emo's recommendation above is to use no background color on the broadcast view and leave it to NDI for people that want a transparent background (edited)

no background color, as in not declared?

yes

22:49

I think it defaults to just black

22:49

But setting it may also interfere with NDI

Odd. I will make sure to change that with the aesthetics update I'm doing in the next hour or day or so.

22:52

Though I will admit NDI is completely new to me as a concept

22:54

I mean the idea makes sense, I just never heard of it

It's super nice, you should try it

I just did, gotta say, much sharper looking.

23:06

but yeah, I've been busy watching people's kids so that's why updates are erm... infrequent.

23:07

it defaults to like a .25 gray

@Mushrooms I have corrected that issue and made a number of changes, thank you Mushrooms and Spleebie for bringing that to my attention. (edited)

@Spleebie I do use NDI actually, I'm not sure how to remove the background though, OR get the map to resize correctly...

00:39

@Dual [CDT UTC-5] (TWWR) thanks. :)

@Hamsda So something interesting happened with The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Randomizer tracker you have, it seems a Child's Pin Location for the Lon Lon Ranch Deku Scrubs don't appear on the tracker.

do you have the setting for scrub shuffle turned on?

It says "Not" under the main rules for it.

15:43

Also do not have scrub shuffle turned on in the seed either, in case if I misunderstood haha

yeah, then none of those scrubs will have anything of importance

Oh ok, thanks!

the map tracker will only show stuff that is actually shuffled (+ some stuff like trade quests just for convenience)

Or is this wrong spot to ask

#customization-support is probably a better place to ask

@Hamsda

for adding skulltula counters. Would love to see that expanded to number of checks done, total logical checks available, and checks remaining in the game

@ReggX what tracker are you making that needs 12000 visibility rules

Oracle of Ages entrance rando

@Pink Switch I'm trying to place the "inside" chests (dungeon, caves, houses) where their location is. Since there's no way to simply move a single location on the map with lua, I have to duplicate the location with different x,y coordinates and use visiblity rules to make only the correct one appear. that's close to n² rules for over 100 entrances.

16:08

I would prefer a simple solution like modifying coordinates at runtime, but had to work around that in its absence.

I will say again, and again, and again... I have a plan for entrance rando. It hasn’t happened because it’s a ton of work and life is complicated and I have a day job and frankly even the best entrance tracking tools still aren’t that much better than notepad. I’m mostly saying to explain that I’m unlikely to implement support for workarounds unless they offer substantial benefit to other things devs are trying to do.

If the current methods of tracking entrance randos use the methods that non-ER trackers use, then actual ER support shouldn't affect the current methods We're just making do with what we have at the moment, there's no rush to get what you have planned out, as nice as it might be

My main point is that I’m not going to add new dev capabilities to enable entrance workarounds, like for example moving locations on maps via lua, unless there are compelling reasons for it outside of entrance support.

The only use I could see for that (outside entrance rando) is things like in TWWR where the ghost ship isn't at the same location every moon phase but... That would be more annoying than useful.

Hey @EmoSaru it seems like your tracker for ALTTP only has DP in logic if you have sword but I had a seed tonight where it was in logic with bow/glove/lamp/book. hammer was on lamo but I put it off because DP didn't show up (edited)

I just checked and it does show up with those items.

23:29

What variant were you using?

Hmmm, I dunno i reloaded and your right I guess it's possible i marked DP off but it didn't mark the pendant off if I did...

23:31

Just Open seed, Advanced logic

did you click off the chests manually or did you right click the location?

Oh man I'm sorry for bothering you I looked at my vod and never marked book. Sorry to bother you. Mad respects to all the work for emotracker.

23:33

no worries, glad you figured it out

Hello. Look's like i dont have the summary popup at the end of a seed with numbeer of thecls, etc in ALLTP pack. need to activate something somewhere ? (auto track is on) (edited)

It should activate when you enter the triforce room. If not, I’d need more details about seed type, emulator/console/etc. and I’d need to confirm that you’re using my package and not another LTTP package

1

15:30

It pops up as a notification, and disappears after a few seconds, just fyi

Il will have another try to confirm all is ok or not. May be ok if the re are not an thing to activate (edited)

@Reimael I noticed on your Kingdom Hearts 2 tracker that Atlantica doesn't seem to have any logic checks for the Magnet ability. Iirc you require ever greater levels of Magnet to progress the story in that world.

correct, haven't done that yet

@Hamsda could you just explain a little more what's new in your maptracker?

https://github.com/Hamsda/EmoTrackerPacks/commits/ootr You can find my commits here if you want to see the actual changes.

Hamsda/EmoTrackerPacks

OoT Rando Map Tracker pack for EmoTracker. Contribute to Hamsda/EmoTrackerPacks development by creating an account on GitHub.

@EmoSaru Quick suggestion for your ALttP pack: Since Berzerker's build can allow for non-progressive bow/silvers, can you make the silvers get autotracked indepenently? I.e. When I find/receive silvers sans bow, the tracker will currently automatically mark the bow as well (with the eastern/PoD logic that follows) Not a huge issue, as I have an override that will make the item grid show silvers minus bow properly with autotracking, but the wrong logic still happens even with that override As I understand it, this was the tracker behavior in a previous update, and it would be nice to see a return, especially since it wouldn't hurt the casuals playing on the web branch (edited)

08:23

Image attachment

I’m not planning on doing any work to support specific features of Berserker’s build. (edited)

13:10

As soon as the official multiworld is released, I will do what is necessary to support that, within reason.

I'm having a bit of trouble with the Standard SMZ3 auto tracker (edited)

16:17

Its only tracking the Z3 side of items

Are you using Bizhawk by chance?

@MuffinJets I found an issue with the Z4R tracker while watching a streamer use it, in the settings you have setting_Swordless_off but in z4r_dungeons.json it's checking for setting_SwordlessOff

:o Thanks for pointing that out, I'll get that fixed

1

smh (edited)

I was led to believe, perhaps incorrectly, that Hamsda's OoT tracker would let me map out entrances for entrance randomizer

16:27

can anybody confirm if that's a thing and maybe I'm just not looking in the right spot?

you need to select the entrance tracker part of the tracker

16:41

should be part of the drop down of Installed Packages

ah, that does it

16:42

thanks!

I used the tracker for the first time yesterday for Minish Cap and noticed that the gold kinstone count did not go down as I used them in the cloud tops. I had 4 coming in, and it was still at 4 after I used them all up. Same with the source of the flow gold kinstone. Even if that was intentional (which it very well could be), it also left the remaining two cloud top fusions marked as available on the map when I was out of kinstones.

The gold kinstones are not meant to go down, were the fusions green or yellow?

the kinstone counter is supposed to "stay" at the current count even if you fuse them, so you know at all times how many you have total (and know how many remaining you need) Only issue is that due to how the autotracker works, if you don't have all kinstones and fuse all of those you possess, the autotracker will add 1 after the very last fusion (whihc means if you entered with 4 and do all the fusions, you'll end up with a fake 5 and the wind tower displayed as accessible)

Ok so the count was working as intended. I fused all but 2 and it still has the remaining two in the clouds marked as available instead of clearing them until I pick up the last 2, but it's not a huge deal.

is it possible to mark master quest dungeons in the Hamsda Map and Item tracker for Ocarina of Time? (edited)

17:44

sorry if this isnt the right spot to ask this

yes, click on the name of the dungeon and it should turn negative

oh cool

18:40

thanks

@EmoSaru In Retro mode from a seed on alttpr.com, if you buy the arrows before obtaining the bow, the autotracking marks it as the bow (similar to the issue I stated before about Berzerker's build having non-progressive silvers)

Retro will require the same sort of special handling that I'm honestly not sure is worth it given how seldomly retro is played.

17:31

I'll consider doing something about it, but it requires a fundamentally different definition of the bow.

17:31

So it would be additional variants.

Retro would benefit from having its own variant anyway so players could have take-anys marked on the map. But yeah, I agree that it would probably be more work than it's worth due to the lack of use outside of maybe mystery seeds.

SauceRelic, there's 2 items in Super Metroid Randomizer that are seemingly unreachable and they're green when I don't have speed booster.

i cant download packages for some reason... halp

02:16

plz

Assuming you are running the latest update, please read the post in #faq about folder control and antivirus. Also, this is better searched for and asked in #general-support.

thank you very much for your help

i might be dumb, but how do i find packets to download

The cloud like symbol on the top right gets you the package manager

1

Small issue in @EmoSaru pack, when you hover over Shovel, it says Mushroom, I'm guessing a copy paste thing when making changes to those items last update

Hmm, interesting. Will fix, thanks for the report.

@Hamsda just in your newest map, Goron Shop and Top of DC HP is showing as green even though I don't have bombs or Zelda's letter

21:47

Oh. Adult can get them

ye

21:48

i cant differentiate between the two maps

21:48

itll show the highest access for either age

And I just realised that as soon as I said it. All good

no worries

@Pink Switch I think there is bug with the MM map tracker. I cannot get Inverted Stone Tower Temple to turn green as the tracker thinks that I cannot defeat the Eyegore for the giant's mask check or Twinmold. I have everything checked on the items section. No tricks are set.

what version are you using

09:58

Make sure you're up to date, I just fixed some issues the other day

I just updated it today. I can see which version of emotracker I'm using 2.3.8.5, but where do I check the version of the pack? (edited)

Aha figured it out! It says I am using 4.1

@XenoWars hey, so how does the elevators tab in the settings work? should the clickable part that cycles through the names be the same as the unclickable one above it? (edited)

20:04

also, some check that can be gotten with bombs, like Hive Chamber B for instance, seem to require power bombs before becoming logical

20:10

and even storage cavern b which only needs missiles

Elevators is there for a future uodate. I was working on it when some things were mentioned, but i didnt have any logic set for it. The elevators are just for show right now. Its in changelog.Storage cavern B should be in logic with powerbomb and missile or missile and ability to get to Temple Assembly Site. Hive Chamber B can in fact be done with power bombs. Right now though it doesnt account if you get powerbombs after GFMC Compound without access to there though. I need custom lua for that, which ill need to learn how to do. what settings are you playing with? @Sal the Dragon

20:19

Also, the elevators will work by: You click to the elevator that the unclickable takes you to

I started with bombs and in landing site. I clicked bombs on the tracker and hive chamber b says it's out of logic (edited)

So if Transport to Agon takes you to Temple Transport A, youd click until Temple Transport A

20:21

It doesnt account for starting items yet. Thats a whole nother ballpark

20:22

Although i think i know now how i can include it

ah, gotcha. thanks for getting back to me

20:24

follow-up question, where does the tracker think your starting location is? or is that also not accounted for yet?

Right now its just Landing Site

20:25

Thats why only the GFMC Compound missile launcher is the only logical item at start

20:27

Im working on the elevators in a separate build so i can still update if needed, so i can probably take starting items into account, which I think only matters for Temple Grounds (edited)

I think so. also kind of depends on logic difficulty setting maybe? idk I usually play on trickless logic

Currently only accounts for no tricks

20:30

Trick logic will be in the future

sounds awesome! thanks again for getting back to me! tracker looks amazing so far, and I really look forward to whatever cmes next!

Actually yeah, with elevator logic, it will only matter for Sky/Temple Grounds

20:39

The elevators will also have a selection for normal or random. Normal means you wont have to select elevators. Random you will need to. I think i might do that for translators too

20:39

If you have any more feedback, or logic issues, do let me know!

1

@XenoWars so I've clicked on every item (I don't actually have them all yet, was just testing something) and the light suit check is still not in logic

Did you mark Quadraxis

20:08

Because its tied to returning Sanctuary energy, you need to defeat Quadraxis

20:10

Dark Oasis STK require Power Bomb Guardian, Dark Missile Trooper requires Bomb Guardian, GFMC Compound missile requires Jump Guardian, Mining Plaza Etank requires Amorbis

right, I forgot that tab existed XD

20:12

lol sorry about that one

Does the Hallow knight map tracker support all items, or just the upgrades?

@SauceRelic if possible, for the settings section of prime 1 rando can you add a scroll bar for those segments? my screen resolution cuts off about half the text for the options. I feel like there may be others with this issue (edited)

Yep, already planned to do that for the next update

Ah thx...

21:35

Sorry for ping =p

Hello i have a problem with all packs in Emotracker

Manually redownload EmoTracker's latest update

12:01

It was a certificate issue that has been resolved now, but needs a manual reinstall

My problem is when I try to update it doesn't update

Have you read the post about antivirus and protected folders in #faq ?

No it is that?

It is a common cause of issues with updating packs.

Ok

13:20

If I have also the problem I test it

If someone releases a custom pack, such as for SMZ3 keysanity, how does one install that pack?

18:10

Emotracker doesn't recognize the zip file if I put it in the documents/emotracker/packs directory

18:11

It doesn't detect it at all

does the zip have the correct file structure?

The pack is a modified smz3 Dorkmaster pack off of github. The manifest.json still has the same uid as the original that's available through the package manager. A member of the smz3 discord helped me discover the background info I needed. I don't have a lot of programmer knowledge or experience, I just needed to edit the uid in the manifest.json so that it's different from the OG pack. It works now.

18:51

fyi there's a public alpha of SMZ3's new keysanity feature, announced a few days ago - one of the discord members, River, created a tracker pack for it

18:53

Or no, not River? I'm a little foggy on the origin

I just found out the alpha site is public now for keysanity, and I've started support for that on a separate branch so I'm gonna do some testing this weekend and hopefully release a new version publicly.

2

1

If you would like an external tester, I'm mid-run on a multiworld keysanity and have free time.

I would like to release what I have just so people can get some use out of it, but I can't say the logic is correct yet because I know for a fact some other changes are going in even outside the keysanity stuff, and I can't confirm it until I get access to the source code Soon

Soon

18:19

Even in the keysanity logic itself, I'm going based on what people have said but I want to make sure it's 100% accurate.

18:24

That will be my plan for tomorrow, go through the current public source code and add the logic changes for the forthcoming v11.1 since that affects standard mode as well, and then I will label the keysanity variants as *ALPHA* in the name so it should be clear they're a work in progress.

Good shit

But the core support of adding the key items and picking them up in autotracking is working.

Can confirm, did a keysanity seed last night with that build

Oh the branch from the GitHub repo?

Yeah lol

18:30

All the keys autotracked correctly, you've got nothing to worry about there

18:30

The key logic was a bit questionable, but it got me through at the very least

Key logic on Z3 side should be correct since it was actually in there already technically, the keys just weren't shuffled in the world.

18:31

The SM side is the question mark.

18:33

Also I guess I should warm you, if you have custom overrides they are probably going to break lol

18:33

There are some major underlying structural changes for keysanity support.

One immediate issue: with this setup, wave and wave missile are in logic (frog speedway to nutella refill, then up volcano room). Health requirements for crossing Spiky Acid Snakes have not been finalized yet (AFAIK, right now there's none).

Image attachment

Dang, I thought I got the wave area covered since I ran into accessing it via LN earlier.

19:47

Okay so as long as you have wave to get through the gate? And presumably on hard mode you don't need wave?

19:48

This is why I want to look at the source once total gets it to the public repo hehe.

19:48

Norfair logic in general with this is...a thing lol

Hey All I just finished a Pack for Alttp and was wondering if someone would be willing to run an Entrance Rando seed with it and give me some feedback.

What does it have different from the already existing packs?

@MuffinJets sorry just saw that you responded, I used the code from your LADX tracker to add badges to the locations and expanded the capture items window to include locations so you can index locations as you find them and have an index on the map for quick refrence.

18:45

I have played a seed myself and am currently making a few adjustments

Nice Though there already is an ER tracker, not sure if you knew that Doesn't have the capture badges, but it's pretty good as is

yup I know, I have used it. I like the badges because its a quick visual refrence.

Dope Just make sure to make all the capture badge images the same size and resolution or else you end up with wildly different sized badges lmao

yup figured that out already lol

Hi a friend and I are using the lttp tracker for fun and had a question- what do the dotted boxes mean on some points like Bumper Cave?

lets you capture an item based on what you see on there

22:23

click it and an item grid should pop out

thanks

Hello, peops. I've just downloaded the Hollow Knight pack, but it seems to only have a small selection of items on it. My main intent is to play randomiser bingo, so having a much larger range of items and things on the UI would be helpful. I assume this is something that is either on the pack or not, but I figured I would ask. If it's a case of "Sorry, it's just not what you want" then I would be interested to know what the script is with making my own/updating the existing one? Should I get in touch with the original creator, or is having multiple packs for the same game available something people are okay with?

updating emotracker doesn't work even if i disable antivirus

06:36

why ?

06:37

emotracker pack i mean

redownload the installer from the website and re-install Emotracker

ok

https://discordapp.com/channels/386961931988369418/422107004560080896/556352107004035072

and i uninstall ?

06:39

@ReggX ?

06:44

don't work

@TamiJo Yeah, unfortunately the only items tracked in that pack are the ones directly needed for progression You may want to look elsewhere for a program for a Bingo board, possibly bingosync.com Though you can add images and items to any given pack if you take the pack's files (found from Documents/EmoTracker/packs) and see if you can't poke around and figure out how it works

08:18

@SherlockHolmesDesTempsModerne Telling us more about the problem instead of just saying "don't work" might help us solve it better, but if it's a single pack that's an issue, try deleting that single pack from Documents/EmoTracker/packs and redownloading it from the package manager from there (edited)

ok

08:21

@MuffinJets

08:21

i uninstall and reinstall with github

What is the specific issue you're having

when i click on the cloud

08:53

i click also on the cloud and update i wait it stay and doesn't update

08:54

@MuffinJets

Is it an update for the entire program or only for an individual pack?

individual pack

08:56

and i have the issue sometimes on other pack example : minish cap pack and sometime oot pack or mmr pack

If I were to make updates to the pack, would that be something that people would be interested in me putting up, or should I try to get in touch with the original creator first?

reinstall with github

why are you installing via github please use the in app package manager (cloud symbol in the top right)

reinstall pack

10:04

because me don't work

Are you saying the package manager isn't working? If that is your issue, that's what we were talking about when we said you should reinstall manually

Hey does anyone know how to use entrance tracker for Hamsda’s tracker

@Chiken Lizard if you press F1, it will open a readme in your browser at the bottom of that i have a section explaining the intended use layout has changed slightly since i made that explanation, but idea is still the same

i have a thing i need to talk with bladefangft or tekky about for the MM Randomizer map tracker they have

06:47

how should i go about doing that?

just pinging the pack authors in here is usually the preferred way

@Tekky i don't know blade's name here so i dunno how to include him, but could you add a item-purchase check to the ocean and swamp deku scrubs on the Majora's Mask map tracker? I had an item on one of them today that i kinda-did-kinda-didn't need to get (epona's song on swamp scrub) and i checked the spoiler log and the ocean scrub had a different item than usual as well (a red rupee). Had i not known how to use the goron bomb boost to jump the fences into ikana and ocean i wouldn't have been able to complete the seed without looking at the spoiler beforehand

10:35

pardon if i'm exceeding my bounds on this but i feel like if the items get randomized they need to be noticed due to most people not knowing or not using the glitches

I've been meaning to do a massive update on the tracker here soon, but school has been extremely busy

ahhh, stoopid school lol

10:43

it's no real rush for me, it's just something i noticed today and it would have been detrimental to people who aren't aware of the glitch and didn't know that it had gotten randomized with the shop-sanity selection in the randomizer program

what makes things worse is that I needed to get a race mode out for the tracker for the weird af race settings MM uses by the time the brackets started up

'sall good

@TidusZecht for now the rikku and pink and map is the only one thats actually up to date

Is anyone else able to download the Hollow Knight Rando 3 pack from @fantallis ? (edited)

00:43

It tries to download for me, but doesn't. No errors or anything. (edited)

00:45

Or it did download but isnt showing it is? Weird.

It's downloading, but there's an issue in the package setup causing the package manager to display incorrectly. I will let Fantallis know, and thanks for reporting it! (edited)

reuploaded it to the same locale, sorry 'bout that! was using an old test manifest from pre-submission

Thanks! Redownloading the pack in package manager should fix the issue for anybody affected, like @Seraphin Eveles

TY!

@Pink Switch think I've found some issues in the accessible settings version of the MM tracker: 1. Several checks have issues with access rules that could cause them to never show up as being in logic on the tracker. These are: - Shiro - Gift from Saving Koume - Boat Archery - The entire poison swamp area - (Technically also the 20 rupee sale at Curiosity Shop but that one isn't important for these settings) This looks to stem from the access rules including redpotionlocateda/bluepotionlocateda but there seemingly being no way to mark those as having been located 2. Dungeon maps and compasses are missing as checks despite being randomized

Hey, I appreciate the feedback and support but unfortunately it appears you are running an outdated version of the map package. Make sure you are using the latest version (5.0) before submitting bugs. thank you (edited)

I am on 5.0

Well I don't know what to say then

@Palm__ Did you export any overrides or unzip the package for some reason?

14:04

If so, clean that up.

I already cleaned up overrides. I want to note that this is for the Accessible Settings version, NOT the normal map tracker

14:05

wait, apparently I didn't clean up overrides

14:06

ok, cleaned up

14:06

however, the issues are still present

I just released an update, hopefully that should fix it

Getting a download error fyi

update loop

14:29

ok, can confirm maps and compasses are there now

14:31

At first I thought the first issue was still there but then I figured out the clicking through to select the item in the bottle was a thing

14:31

Thanks for the fixes!

actually, one more issue I noticed cropped up after this update (iirc, it was working fine before): Setting the item received from a check and then marking the check complete doesn't mark the item in the items panel

Yes that is known and intended

ahh, I had a feeling that was the case after thinking about it due to game mechanics

I have an issue with OoTR map tracker by Darkened5sy + Spleebie, My map is tiny and I cant seem to resize it? is this possible?

12:32

Image attachment

12:32

Can I remove the Pinned locations box?

If you are running on a low resolution screen, likely a laptop, you may want to customized the layout to work better for you. This can be a bit advanced, but people in #customization-support can help.

@Staark92#9592 I really recommend using Hamsda's OOTR pack instead. Ours is very out of date with logic and will probably be changed to an item-only pack in the near future as neither of us have the time/desire to keep it updated.

You can also use the Scroll Wheel on the items display to adjust its size, though most (all?) packs have a minimum size for it. (edited)

^ Ctrl + Scroll (edited)

@Hamsda I noticed some bugs with your latest ootr pack update: the context menu for skulltulla house show "10 Skulls Kak" for all 5 checks, in pinned locations it's correct

oh ye, copy paste error

Hey @XenoWars, I'm not sure what it is specifically about your MP2 pack, but everything is very laggy, including (and especially) loading save files Everything that I can see about it works fine, but you may want to look into why it's lagging like that

So im having issues downloading packages, i click install then the bar fills all the way green then it goes back to grey. Ive tried uninstalling and deleting. Even tried the new version on the announcements channel and it did the same thing. Im out of ideas at this point and id appreciate all help i can get.

Did you read the message in #faq about virus scanners and documents folder protection? Check that.

Ham, not sure if this was intentional or not, but 3-Key Forest no longer shows as an available sequence break on the Keysanity map tracker.

You should clarify what game you’re talking about.

@EmoSaru Thank You!!! That seemed to work

Ham's OoTR pack.

22:54

I didn't realize he had other packs.

uh Ill have to take a look

23:14

ive seen it like yesterday

@LostThePirate Point is that there are many games supported by many packs that live inside EmoTracker.

I mean I know she was talking to me and what she was talking about lol

1

TBH, I missed the "ham" at the start of her post, but as a general practice i'd encourage people to be obvious about what pack they're talking about, since words like "keysanity" are increasingly shared across a variety of randomizers.

1

Sorry, was a little too quick to get to the point of the message. I'll try to include more context for anyone other than the intended recipient who sees a post and might be confused.

1

@Dorkmaster Flek Hey I noticed that in SMZ3 keysanity alpha pack, the cathedral missile pack requires upper norfair 2 key, even though the door is after the pack. Alpha is obv gonna see some changes anyway, just a heads up for the next update.

So this is actually "correct" in the sense that it follows the randomizer code. The actual logic requires UN2 key for this location to be considered accessible. (edited)

06:06

In the code, this item is part of UN east which requires the UN2 key. There is an update in the pipe to move this location to be part of UN west in order to allow what you're describing, but it's not merged in yet.

06:06

Once it is, I will update the tracker to follow the new logic.

Speedbooster also puts it in logic without the key (and wave in Normal). Basically it's currently only in logic if you can get to wave beam location.

06:49

There are many access bugs in Norfair right now. Keylogic there is at least as complicated as PoD, possibly more so, and total didn't flesh it all out on the first pass.

Yeah Norfair is kind of the PoD of SM in terms of key logic lol.

Okay so my EmoTracker Official ALTTP tracker keeps saying "Update Available" in yellow, and when I click Update the green bar fills, and then nothing changes it just keeps saying "Update Available" and the loop cycles continuously.

Did you a) unzip the pack or b) export an override for manifest.json? Don’t do either of those things, and delete such files if you did. If you didn’t, then see the message in #faq for things to check about your antivirus and/or folder protection settings.

I never did a) or b) and I did not have folder protection settings enabled. I even tried enabling them and allowing EmoTracker through, yet the problem persists.

So I need some help with the Hamsda pack for OoT. Apparently it was updated and now I feel idiotic. Always on Entrance Rando Keysanity which shows the entrances but after the update there is nothing. I need to hit F11 to force show locations for them to show but... well that defeats the purpose? Since Im used to it being locations show up in green and then I can mark them off as needed so forcing all locations to show means I cant do that. But if I turn off f11 I get an empty map. Im guessing there was a change and Im just old boomer man brain and Im missing something that should be obvious?

21:39

Nothing messed with. I updated EmoTracker cause its been a while since Ive done a rando run. Then I updated Hamsda's since it had an update and now just base is like this https://gyazo.com/3767c9dc618ac66b190b8b8e7ddff021

Did you click the cogwheel and set the appropriate options for how you're playing?

Yep!

hey, since the update now supports logic, you need to set your start location in the bottom left corner of the connectors tab

22:58

i'll update my short video guide soon

OHHHHHHHHHHHHH

23:01

Its opening connectors vs showing them all like it used to in the past

yeah

And yeah I never use the connectors tab so I didnt think of checking it.

depending on your starting age, either the child or adult marker should be the only green dot at the start

23:02

(or i guess warp songs if you start with those)

I always do randomize ER but not connectors.

23:02

So having it on the second tab was mildly confusing

yeah, you can just change the overworld shuffle in the settings to off

Got it. Thats neat.

then it will pre fill all the connectors

Ahhh.

23:03

Ok. Then I was mildly boomer mind.

same goes for all the other ER shuffle options

Thanks for the clarification tho.

no problem as i said, i'll update the tutorial in the readme soon, hopefully people will take a look at it when they get stuck

Question tho, since youre here

23:04

Do you have support yet for mixed pools? Or no plan?

I also gave it a test run and noticed one kinda significant bug, so gonna push a quick update soon

23:04

you can kinda do it

Kinda?

if you make an override for locations\overworld_entrance.json and comment out every line of capture_item_layout i have prepared a capture grid that just has all of them, and the logic doesn't really care what you mark where

23:06

I should probably provide an updated version of that over in the ootr discord

23:06

had the override pinned for the RSL folks

Ok, just a few more questions. Ill shoot them out quick. <.<;

23:07

First: Option to have the spawn option on the entrance tab? Or both tabs? Just cause that might be something that crops up as an issue.

yeah can probably do that

Since Im fairly certain more people play entrance rando over connectors + entrance.

since those 8 act more like connectors, i put them over there, but i can see a lot of people who dont like overworld ER

Yeah.

23:08

Overworld ER is the term I was looking for. Silly me.

23:08

And second question which might not be you but emotracker in general

23:08

Is there a way to scroll pinned locations?

23:09

Cause sometimes it gets so long and Ive never found a way to see them all

23:09

And if I use <both> then I cant see pinned locations at all

i dont think so

Or a way to moved pinned locations to the side even? Might be an Emotracker thing

23:10

https://gyazo.com/cb1c3fe2636f55fd4b559c358fa49f94

i personally just go into options > tracking > disable pin locations on item capture

23:10

and only pin what i actually need

Makes sense.

yeah both is kinda layed out for having the tracker itself rather vertical

I mean I play with a notepad anyway cause Im insane and do 100GS rando runs so I need a notepad for silly stuff.

23:11

If I make it smaller it shows up fine

23:11

But then the map is impossible to use

is how i use it

Image attachment

23:11

yeah, hopefully I will get around to adding the overworld locations and dungeons in the not too distant future

23:11

so that it can be kinda used like the non ER tracker

Oh you work backwards? Show all locations and mark it as you need?

23:12

I like seeing all locations and slowly seeing the marks disappear as I clear them so I can know what locations are still useful.

nah, usually i only show greens

Oh ok.

just had it on for testing purposes

Mmhm.

23:13

Well now Im no longer confused tho.

23:13

Thanks for the updates!

FubukiCheer

BibicheerA

Ameliacheer

@Hamsda Is there a way to disable reliance on connectors? I didnt use the tracker for OoT till now, Entrance Randomizer (Keysanity). And I noticed I set my spawn to Kak which is correct, but it only shows buildings in Kak. Which I then noticed was because on connectors I needed to make the entrances connect to Hyrule Field/GY. But if you're only playing entrance randomizer but not overworld then you're stuck basically turning the connectors map to normal(manually). Not sure if you could add like something under the Cogwheel to be like Entrance/Overworld/Both just like you have the option for All/Simple/Off. (edited)

that already exists you just set the overworld/owl/warps/spawns to not shuffled and it will pre-mark all of the connectors for you

@Eatitup_86 for your FF6 pack, would it possible to make it so that anytime you marked a character portrait it'd automatically increase the character counter?

Ooooh. So those count? Hrm. Ok. Easy enough then.

Hamsda. Not sure if Im misremembering, but I followed your instructions for commenting out so as to give the custom for decoupled which worked fine. But unless Im mistaken a few of the new locations arnt available in the custom? I could have sworn for example I saw potion front/back added but when you comment out capture_item_layout it only shows all the original potential locations.

Actually, is this the place to talk about pack potential bugs? Should I head to general? Dont wanna spam the wrong channel. Or if Hamsda has their own discord or spot to talk about their pack?

This is a fine place, but as much as possible make sure it’s a potential pack bug and not a misunderstanding of the rando or logic first.

Yepyep. Then the above comment was right for here. I guess the next Ill throw in general. Thanks.

@Hamsda In the last couple updates of the OoTR Map Pack, Child Gatehouse Skull has been hidden from view on the Child menu and is showing up on the Adult menu with the Poes check instead. http://prntscr.com/v6av0r http://prntscr.com/v6aw2m

Captured with Lightshot

Captured with Lightshot

lmao

I meant to say something a few days ago, but I forgot, lol.

23:32

...Which is pretty much exactly why I use a Map Tracker XD

ye muffin told me

also thanks for noticing @UnspunReality added the missing houses to the default capture

@WillardJBradley if you can show an example of another tracker that does that type of interaction maybe but Anguirel did all the work for the new update which added in auto tracking + map tracking capability.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

13:57

I'll look into it

@WillardJBradley I think I've found a way to do this. I'll work with Eatitup_86 to see if we can get it incorporated into the pack.

:O

19:53

i made a custom override for the gated tracker that has the dragon counter

19:53

and that'd be super helpful

hey folks, first time poster so sorry if this is the wrong place. i'm trying to find a specific pack that i've seen around online and used in streams. it uses similar graphics to the in-game menus but i can't find it anywhere

19:55

Image attachment

19:55

Image attachment

19:56

these two screenshots show slightly different layouts but i believe they come from the same pack. could be wrong... any help at all to find the pack would be appreciated. thanks

19:58

at least from the first screenshot, i know it's an emotracker pack... and from the placement of the icons, i think it might also work for randomizers

Image attachment

20:14

found a streamer using it but he didn't remember where he got it, just said it was from googling it somewhere over a year ago... looks like it has customisation options at least

If that's an EmoTracker pack, it's not one available from the download manager. You might ask in the OoT Randomizer discord.

I don't see any pack or tracker that looks like that on the OoTR Wiki's Trackers page, so no clue.

yeah, i've asked there but nobody seems to know. it's likely a few folks modified a layout themselves a while back somehow but is now only appearing in dead links and such. no worries, i'm going to try and customise myself

02:51

thanks for the responses, though

@Hamsda Child now has a Capture for Big Poes as well as Guardhouse Skull, and so Guardhouse now starts as Orange with Tokens shuffled, lol. Was that intentional, or another hiccup? (edited)

LULW

intentional

@Hamsda So with guard set to open, I still dont have Kak > DMT open on the map despite having Kak available. Kak > HF and Kak > GY show fine but no Kak > DMT, even with Guard Marked as open. Entrances all also showed fine in Kak. Nor am I actually sure how to make it show aside from F11. Tried changing to owning letter/not needing letter but nothing with my current set up so far. So not entirely sure if Im somehow in error or if its a backend. (edited)

yeah i think that one was messed up

Ahh. Ok. Atleast I dont need to go crazy thinking I messed up. Thanks.

Yeah, I am rewriting it a bit again, and think that one was just flat out missing in the last release

Oh.

23:29

If you're rewriting/fixing. Ill ask now, is there an easier way to comment out everything?

23:30

Or do I just need to ctrl f and comment out manually every update?

23:30

For the custom layout for use with mixed pools.

@Hamsda Also, marking a LW entrance activates Kokiri Forest for some reason. Aswell as LW Beyond Mido > Deku Theater. Ive checked, I only marked LW and not LW Beyond Mido. Which wouldnt make sense to activate Kokiri Forest anyway unless Im missing some LW Kokiri forest connection logic.

ill look into it

23:48

and commenting out will be the way, but i can just provide that file as well, since it takes 2 seconds to change

Ahh, ok. Where would it be provided, just for future notice. I dont mind commenting out myself, just wasnt sure about it being easier. 3min out my day for something free doesnt kill me.

i'll probably just put it somewhere in the pack, or maybe over on the ootr discord

Cool. Thanks for making this btw and for the updates and work you put into it.

23:50

thumbsup

but yeah with vscode, it takes me no time to comment them out and just put the file somewhere

23:50

glad you like it

Id go insane doing ERs without it.

Hrm. Ok I figured out why it'd open grotto beyond mido. Cause its assuming I can get there as child. That makes sense. Im not sure why LW would open Kokiri Forest tho. Since LW has no connection to forest that I could think of.

I am getting this error, yet when i open up the package manager there is no SOTN anywhere in there. Can't update it or uninstall it.

Image attachment

It would appear that @Gilgatex's package repository is not currently functional at the URL I have registered for it. They can DM me updated details when they're around.

I haven't hosted it in a couple years

well there ya, go I should probably remove that entry then

. I noticed in one of my Runs today. I had a LTTPR Inverted Seed with Casual Boot and Active Flute Start. It looks like there is missing logical checks in the tracker for having a Starting Active Flute with no Light world access. Checks that are missing. to my knowledge, POD, Pyramid Ledge, and Once you get Gloves Cat Fish. This is happening on The EmoSuru Inverted and Inverted Keysanity maps. ( Flute 5 gives access to all of those) as soon as i got Light world access those checks lit up. (i know its a bug since my Hammer was a Cat Fish and it was my only Light world access and gloves were in POD) (edited)

I’ll look into it.

10:54

That said, I don’t care so much about things that are only commonly played by people using a certain someone’s weird ass fork of the randomizer.

None of those things should be specific to berserker's since you could theoretically just get flute, mirror and strength in sphere 0 (edited)

11:01

Tybalt how did you warp to flute spot 5 and be able to escape it without the hammer?

11:01

I don't think that's something in Berserker's build, I played an inverted seed just the other day

11:06

@Tybalt Are you playing on Berserker's or did you get your seed from the main website (alttpr.com)?

From the main site. Some one had rolled a mystery with the bot on the discord

dope, thanks

emo it's not a weird ass fork this is just like regular settings pikbruh

pikbruh

man i keep forgeting to add all the little flags in the it was an open start as well

~~Open, as in not Standard?~~ Ignore that, I'm dumb lmao (edited)

it was a league Mystery

11:10

yes you had a choice of Links house or Dark Chapel

@Pink Switch Kindly don't argue with me. There are formats that are almost exclusively commonly generated by Berserker's fork, and for a variety of reasons, I don't deal with his shit. If the league mystery is generating starting active flutes, then I will be fixing it.

if you you would like here is the link to the seed https://alttpr.com/en/h/LzMY7kOzyg#meta

LzMY7kOzyg - ALttP VT Randomizer

ALttP Web VT Randomizer

Thank you, that helps.

though i will say i not 100% sure if gloves were in pod but that's besides the point. i think they were in Bonk chest in Hookshot. but eh symantics

@Tybalt This is now fixed. You have to mark the flute as activated in order to see the available locations (autotracker will do this for you).

Thank you. i do tend to use auto tracker since i tend to forget about some checks which we all have done

This sounds like a #general-support issue, it sounds like your old version of EmoTracker isn't updating properly. Try uninstalling and reinstalling using the current installer from https://emotracker.net/download/

Downloading & Installing EmoTracker

15:25

That's the pack I maintain in your video, but the title bar says "Super Metroid and ALTTP Randomizer - v10.2"

15:25

That is an old version for sure, it should say "Super Metroid and ALTTP Randomizer Map Tracker"

15:26

Try deleting the packs you have downloaded and reinstalling those.

15:26

They're in Documents/EmoTracker/packs

15:28

This sounds like a program/PC issue, not a pack issue based on the video. All the packs are showing update available.

15:28

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

15:28

Maybe Emo has more insight, I don't know what else you can do if you've reinstalled the program from the website and deleted the pack files.

Hey @Hamsda, on an Adult Start in Kak ER seed today, it never showed Kak -> DMT as "in logic" and I'm not sure why? I've got it marked as Adult Start and Gate Open, so I don't know why that remained out of logic as far as the ER tracker was concerned? http://prntscr.com/vsis3x

Captured with Lightshot

17:19

(I do have an Override to accommodate Mixed Pools for non-Connectors, but I don't think that would matter here?)

Maybe it's shenanigans with Zelda's Letter for the Kak guard

Skip Child Zelda was also on, though, and marked in the Tracker Settings.

17:23

http://prntscr.com/vsiv33

Captured with Lightshot

17:28

Here's the Override, in case I screwed something up there...

overworld_entrance.json

177.21 KB

nah its me just having fucked that up

20:03

and since i kinda rewrote it again i never released an update

20:03

hopefully i'll be done with all the checks soon

20:03

just have been addicted to hades in the last 2 weeks andyEyes

andyEyes

1

Hey

I am having a problem downloading the Wind Waker Pack @Darkened5ky "EmoSaru" told me to ping you here

@Pernox just checking, is your emotracker at least version 2.3.8.8?

yep it is 2.3.8.11

10:32

It just says "download error" i downloaded 5 other packs just to check and they worked

I just tried the download on my work PC that didn't have the pack installed and it's working fine.

10:33

but 5 other packs worked?

That's quite strange. It will be a little while before I can look into it though. Have you ever had the pack downloaded previously?

never I just got into Wind Waker again and decided to go full ham for the randomizer

the first time ever so there was no need. Its a fresh install of Emotracker too

All right. I am unavailable until tomorrow to see if I can reproduce it, unless Spleebie finds something in the meantime.

I wonder if it's running into the controlled folder access mentioned in #faq

I will double check windows defender. Since I updated Windows yesterday maybe it turned on in the registry again

An easy fix for now would be to download the pack manually and just drop it in your Documents/EmoTracker folder https://github.com/Darkened5ky/Wind-Waker-Item-and-Map-Tracker/releases/download/2.0.1.2/Wind-Waker-Item-and-Map-Tracker.zip

gimme a second

10:38

yeah I know Windows Defender is off for me by default cause I hate it

Windows Defender shouldn't be interfering

CFA is a feature from Defender afaik :x

Oh, that's what I get for not actually reading the thing in faq

10:41

Still same error

Anyway, the pack download link in the repo is the same as the one I gave ^ which is working. Do you get an error when you click on that?

nope the link works fine

Just throw that zip into Documents/EmoTracker/packs then (edited)

there is no way to implement the packs manually right?

10:42

Ok I will try that rq

yes, I just described the procedure

10:42

Edited, needs to go in the packs folder

Image attachment

10:44

Image attachment

You might have to close out emotracker and open it again

I did that

Did you see the OOT and MM packs in that folder?

yes

makes no sense. Can you open the zip file?

oh wait I may have found the issue one second I'll try to fix it

10:51

oh dear

10:51

works now

10:51

When I downloaded the github stuff it packed it into an extra folder inside the .zip

10:51

I pulled everything out and now it works

10:52

ty for your help

Sorry for the trouble (edited)

I gave you a direct download link which should not have done that

10:56

did you go to the github and download a zip of the source code instead of getting the release?

oh dear I guess it opened my last location from github again

‍♂️ I am not used to github

11:03

Yeah I see now it downloads it again and gives me the right zip

if you're getting something from github always go to the Releases page and get it from there. In most cases downloading the source code just won't work the same way

Having some trouble installing the official ALTTP tracker. Clicking the Install button just fills the progress bar, hangs for a second, and then reverts to being empty. Any suggestions?

see #faq probably something to do with controlled folder acces

Problem solved after a lil bit of trial and error! Thanks homie

@Dorkmaster Flek SMZ3 Keysanity. Pretty sure WS should be in logic here via Maridia. (You can see I've already picked up Spooky Missiels.)

09:55

Image attachment

It should be, but it isn't.

10:11

The randomizer logic does not currently handle this scenario in keysanity of going up through Maridia from near Kraid's Lair. (edited)

10:11

It only handles crossing the moat which requires the Crateria 2 card, or coming via Maridia portal which you can't access yet. (edited)

10:13

There are several corner cases like this in the current keysanity logic that aren't covered currently. If they get changed, I'll update the tracker logic to match.

You should at least mark it as yellow that it can be done but isnt expected?

Is it still set to stay red until Phantoon is dead?

No, WS shows up regardless of whether Phantoon is dead now, it's more useful that way.

(edited)

12:47

Also the way I've used the yellow marker is basically if you're on normal but it's in logic on hard mode only.

12:48

I think it's potentially more confusing to people if it shows up as any kind of available with the current logic because it's not "in logic" at all.

i was under the impression yellow was for checks that were possible, but not in logic (ie sequence breaking glitches)

Generally speaking yes, the thing is in SM those sequence breaking tricks are typically in logic on hard mode.

well yeah, if that's how you're doing it i wouldn't change it, i think other packs would just have a hard mode switch that would mark those as green i they were in logic in hard mode

That pack does have a hard mode switch

oh

Note where it says Difficulty: Normal. Click that.

my friend i dont have this pack, was merely interested about people's pack designing habits as i learn more about how these things are made

fair

12:52

Didn't pay attention to who posted the pic up there

it's a design choice and a valid one, if the checks can still be marked (and they're not missing anything logicwise because it's out of logic) then like... /shrug

Yeah my thing is, it's not a trick or a sequence break, it's simply a route that isn't currently accounted for in the code yet. As such, I don't see it as a problem with the pack. It's a problem with the randomizer logic. My intention is the pack should match the logic, even if that logic isn't perfect. It's more confusing if it deviates imo.

12:56

And because those tricks are used a lot in hard mode logic, I let hard mode logic be "yellow" on normal basically. Generally, if you see something yellow in SM on normal, if you flip it to hard it should go green. This is a somewhat arbitrary design choice, but it gives me a strict set of logic to include based on the actual randomizer code so it seemed pretty reasonable. This is all regarding SM specifically, since it has multiple difficulties. In LTTP, there's only one set of logic and I basically follow the regular Z3R set for yellow, ex. fake flippers and stuff like that. Two different games and all.

(edited)

and honestly it makes more sense to leave it if the rando logic will be updated, because it means rather than devote time to it now you can just... add it later when you have to update it anyway

12:56

very interesting!

Also that, yeah.

Pretty sure it is in the randomizer logic. Definitely in the fill algorithm logic. Loading stuff to check.

Not in the current keysanity branch...

12:58

Unless it's in another branch that hasn't been merged in yet?

13:00

The current keysanity branch last I checked WS only checks for moat route or from Maridia portal. If you don't have access to Maridia portal, it doesn't account for having access to UN west and coming up through Maridia from there. I presume because before keysanity existed, that route would simply be covered by the moat route. (edited)

Yeah, does look like stuff is a little broken there. Add that to the ToDo list.

Yeah keysanity is a whole beast for routing in SM now. Thanks! pidgeTy

pidgeTy

Dorkmaster Flek

Also the way I've used the yellow marker is basically if you're on normal but it's in logic on hard mode only.

Yeah, I noticed that! Pretty nifty.

13:38

It's funny that it considers the Maridia portal, but but the tube entrance lol

Well prior to keysanity, if you could get in via the tube then you could cross the moat so it was just redundant I think.

Depends how nested the logic functions are. Like if there's a canAccessWS() that refers to a canAccessToilet() or whatever. It's hard to avoid recursion if you depend on it too much, though. Had that problem with Crystalis logic lol.

Yeah that's the concern with Norfair stuff lol. I think it is doable without recursion, if we go based on UN west access even if we have to spell it out more explicitly.

Think I've got Tube > FH > WS worked out. Posted it in #development for others to look at before doing a PR. Should hopefully be fixed whenever total updates again.

1

pidgeTy

1

Hi, I was wondering if there's a way to autotrack with an emulator using Lua with the ALTTPR pack?

03:38

Wait

03:39

Nevermind I should go to #autotracker-support, sorry for not noticing that

03:40

On top of that it's one of the pinned messages in there

SMZ3 normal logic question: What would cause Misery Mire to be completely out of logic with no sword/bow but have hammer/flute/mitt/known medallion?

04:31

In this instance checkerboard cave had a sword so I never dove to try it

04:33

I’m not 100% on Vitreous but I’m fairly confident the wizzrobes in the opening room could be killed with hammer, which means MM spot should have at least been orange (edited)

you need a sword to use the medallion (edited)

1

^ You would also need hookshot or boots to get past the entrance hallway.

Had both but I always forget the sword for medallion requirement, thanks! (edited)

How do I fix things being cut off. I'm using the MMR tracker by Rikkukun,Pink Switch and epicYoshi but some settings and tricks are being cut off. Any fixes?

resize the window (edited)

No matter what size I make it it's always cut off. Even when I make it full screen.

What resolution is your display?

1366 × 768

Ah, that is definitely tiny. You will absolutely need to scale the pack ui down to make that work, so now is the time to go to #customization-support and search the history for how to do that.

@EmoSaru Thanks. Will try it out.

Hi, i'm triyng to download a package for ALTTP, so i click on the logo of cloud with an arrow to download it, but when i click on "install" i saw a green stick for say to me then it's downloading and nothing, whe, it's over what can i do ?

see #faq, something to do with controlled folder acces

thank you

where do I find packs for the emo tracker

12:09

or do I have to make them

ὄντος (ontos)

where do I find packs for the emo tracker

press the cloud icon in the top right of the application, the package manager has all the available packs

Hey, prefacing this with the fact that i've reinstalled EmoTracker and have deleted all packs that I've owned, in fear that something borked itself. I cannot download any packs. I slap the install button, the progress bar completes, then it resets itself.

12:39

Prior to deleting the packs I did have, I attempted to update them. When I did, it said something else was using EmoTracker, and to close it. I don't have, like, anything else open.

Can you get a screenshot of that message?

12:40

Wait you're getting that message when you try to delete packs? If so, try rebooting

12:41

I'm not sure what would be keeping EmoTracker open but that's a surefire way to close it

That'll definitely be the next step. I'm going to quickly attempt the disabling of any background processes that might try and interfere with installation. I haven't done any antivirus changes in, like, two years, but they're quick to block. Probably should've read the #faq first. I'll quickly test the antivirus, and let you know.

12:42

i now hate avast

12:43

Sorry about that tomatoSmile

tomatoSmile

(this is also more for #general-support anyway too but it's all good)

i have... a very specific problem, and if i can't do it the easy way that's fine i can fix it the hard way but... basically i accidentally updated a pack which made it so i can't load an old save which means unless i rewatch my stream vod and remark everything my entrance rando is fuuuucked. any chance it's possible to manually install old versions? ~~and hamsda has old versions that can be downloaded?~~

That’s up to the individual pack developer. Tag them.

@Hamsda you have a 2 version old oot map pack i can use? to save a poor streamer from going through a 4 hour vod?

yeah they are all on my github

PolychromeVirus

@Hamsda you have a 2 version old oot map pack i can use? to save a poor streamer from going through a 4 hour vod?

https://github.com/Hamsda/EmoTrackerPacks/commits/master/ootrando_overworldmap_hamsda.zip

Hamsda/EmoTrackerPacks

OoT Rando Map Tracker pack for EmoTracker. Contribute to Hamsda/EmoTrackerPacks development by creating an account on GitHub.

11:43

not sure which version he has, but he can open his save with a text editor and it contains the version number i'm pretty sure

oh that's pretty cool

11:46

just goes to show i would have 100% downloaded the wrong version, thank you very very much

the relief i feel that that worked hit me very very hard i did try to download an older version from your github but i guess i downloaded the wrong thing haha. thanks guys!

Best not to update your active pack mid-run.

oh im very acutely aware of that

12:47

as i've actually done it before >.>

12:48

it was more of a "ooh pack icon yellow better click" impulse than anything

12:48

and before i knew it i was already mid update when it clicked

yeah i think that gets a lot of people once

13:00

which is why im glad github has every version (edited)

Hamsda, layout feedback - condense these onto one line unless it's too narrow for them to be on one line? It's a lot of unnecessary unused space that could be better utilized as additional space for pins. http://prntscr.com/wcvuba

Captured with Lightshot

I guess I can do that for the non ER

Just checked the prime 2 tracker and seeker launcher is missing. Just thought I’d let you know @XenoWars. (edited)

it is not

09:45

it's progressive with missile launcher

09:45

@Jas

Ok well I’m dumb. Thank you for the clarification.

That may be worthwhile to change since you can get seekers independently from regular missiles

sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but where tdo i go to get a guide on how to read a pack? like i'm looking at the super adventure island 2 tracker without much idea on what some of the options mean

@Kelik By "read a pack" do you mean from the users' perspective? Or are you taking it apart and trying to understand how it works?

user's perspective

17:21

like the manual or whatever

A few packs have documentation, either accessed here or by pressing F1

17:22

Image attachment

17:23

If it doesn't have that, then you're kinda out of luck unless you ask for help in the respective rando server There isn't a standard for how packs are designed, it's kind of up to the individual pack developers to convey how to use it

17:25

Now I've never played any of the Adventure Island games, but I do know how they work so I might be able to help you out too, do you have any specific questions?

17:26

Also, the pack seems to have autotracking So as long as you can get that set up, you may not need to understand it per se, as long as you know where to go in-game

There are checks that never go into logic in that pack even with every item filled so it might be out of date anyway

i figured out the parts that were confusing me, the randomizer had some options that translated into weird buttons on the tracker

17:49

the part that got me was that left clicking a tablet lit it up, marking you had the tablet (does nothing to logic) and right clicking signals the gate is open (opens logic) BUT theres ALSO a button that signals the "open world" option that starts with all gates open. if this button is lit then all the tablet buttons do nothing since they're locked open. thats what had me confused

Ah gotcha

17:50

Yeah I'd be confused too

17:51

Design as a concept sucks lol

it works well if you know what the buttons do, but no documentation

17:52

had to use my bian

17:52

-looks at misspelling- -sigh-

Close eneuff

hey i am using link to the past traker but i don't see tower of hera (edited)

Which pack? There are like 6 ALttP packs

the first one (edited)

12:29

the official one

Are you using the map tracker? Have you actually tracked items that would give you access to Tower of Hera?

where do i upload a tracker once i've got one to share?

OCD Perfectionist Nitpicker

where do i upload a tracker once i've got one to share?

#faq Part 2.

I have a question about packages, I assume that is what pack support is at least

20:21

Where on the computer are the packages stored

Documents/EmoTracker

If this isn’t how you’re supposed to get this item then there must be a mistake. In Prime 2’s tracker the Training Chamber in Torvus Subterranean Area, there’s a missile. And it says you can get it without spider ball but there aren’t any ways to get to it. Just thought I’d throw that out there @XenoWars.

Hey @codemann8 I love the new update to your pack, but how do I remove a room/supertile from view?

08:25

Image attachment

Jas

If this isn’t how you’re supposed to get this item then there must be a mistake. In Prime 2’s tracker the Training Chamber in Torvus Subterranean Area, there’s a missile. And it says you can get it without spider ball but there aren’t any ways to get to it. Just thought I’d throw that out there @XenoWars.

During some multis I did recently, I was told of many issues, some of which I could have sworn were not issues. I will be going over all of it. (edited)

08:49

I may actually split missile and seeker as muffinjets suggested too

Alright, if you need me to find bugs then just let me know.

MuffinJets

Click to see attachment 🖼️

There is not, generally speaking there isn't much real estate to add a mechanism to remove a room. There will be times when a room is brought up (a false positive) like when collecting the PoD Hammeryump Big Chest. Ideally in the future this is changed to not have it be brought up in those cases, but for now, this is the v1.0 of the door stuff. Expect improvements to it in the future.

Wait it happens automatically? I haven't actually tried a run with it yet

11:00

That's dope if true

if i have a question about logical issues in a pack is that an appropriate thing to ask here (for a specific developer) or is that better for the randomizer's discord

That depends on whether you’re just unsure of the logic or you believe there’s a bug in a pack.

i believe there's a bug in the pack, the randomizer expected me to go to a location that i can't seem to get the map to put in logic

15:34

but i could just be missing a setting

If you believe there’s a bug, then tag the pack developer and explain your issue.

@SauceRelic I'm using the Metroid Prime 1 tracker and it had all of south phendrana out of logic without boost ball, but that's actually where boost ball is in this seed. Is there a more restrictive setting i don't have set?

Oh gosh I haven't updated that thing in literal years, I was in the process of it but life hit me fast. The logic is so outdated that I wouldn't be surprised if it was wrong like every 2 or 3 runs

15:40

Still got a lot going on but I'll try to fit it into my workflow, no promises on how soon it will be though

ahhh gotcha, no worries, just wondering! using the spoiler log i got back on my feet

When I played Prime 1 often, I'd just disable logic and use it as a checklist, I recommend doing that

i might end up doing that, but i haven't played it enough to know by heart what i need for different checks

16:23

i just softlocked myself by falling in a half pipe, you think i know that i only need heat protection to get to phendrana south?

Oof yeah

16:33

That's kind of just a hurdle to get over for the game, Prime 1 and 2 both can get you in some pretty easy softlocks

16:33

I actually patch my randomized isos over the practice mod so that I can teleport myself to the beginning of the room if I need to

oh that's a good idea, not being able to do that is the main reason i don't do it often, lack of fast travel and save warps make it really tedious to backtrack

The Prime 2 rando does that automatically even

^ with menu mod

sounds like it's time to get into prime 2 rando

I finally got a Windows 10 laptop, and I was eager to use the tracker... but none of the packs I click to install are actually installing. I hit the install button and the progress bar fills completely, but nothing happens afterwards; the pack isn't added and it acts as if I never tried to install it. what could be happening?

have you checked faq, specifically permission part?

ah. See, I should've checked there first. I'm sorry, I'll leave now in my shame...

eh, nothing that shameful really. common mistake

you good fam

Hello

08:19

Ive got an Issue

08:22

Im currently playing an Hard Difficulty Randomizer of Oracle of Seasons. Ive got shuffled Dungeons and it says i cannot enter the second dungeon entrance as i cant reach it. But i reached it and got inside it,yet my randomizer still says i cant be there. Now ive found an Item in there that actually lets me progress in this seed. Seems a certain Route isnt covered by the Logic

The Oracles packs are a little outdated

With dungeon shuffle, it's not going to say you have any checks there unless you properly mark the dungeon entrance on the tracker

Hello. One question, I'm trying out the tracker (SMZ3 randomizer map tracker) and there's "Standard" and "Bizhawk Standard". What's the difference? When should I use either?

Use the Bizhawk version when you're playing with Bizhawk Use the Standard version when you're using snes9x

09:42

The reason why #autotracker-support was mentioned when you asked this earlier today was because that's technically the place to ask for that specifically

Use the Standard version when you're using anything that isn't Bizhawk directly.

That includes QUsb2snes's emulator bridges, or actual hardware via flash cart. (edited)

11:26

If you're having trouble with autotracking specifically, ask in that support channel and check the pins there for instructions.

@codemann8 hey i would appreciate it if your lttp pack didn't straight up change some emotracker settings, thanks

14:06

yours was the last one used, so it defaulted to it when I opened it, then when I switched to another pack it screwed up all the emotracker settings (display all locations, always able to mark locations, and most importantly it disabled auto pin on capture)

14:06

can you like

14:06

not force that on people

only if you ask nicely and not like an entitled prick

15:19

:)

There are reasons why Codemann is modifying those settings, and it has to do with some of his solutions for supporting the more esoteric modes that the core app is less capable of modeling by default. I have some changes in the works that will potentially allow him to stop doing some or all of that. I’m not a fan of packs touching the user settings, for a few reasons, but I understand why he’s doing it and was already aware. Most importantly though, @Pink Switch - you have the pack developer role. I expect pack developers to treat other pack developers reasonably, and that includes not being an asshole to them in public spaces. For example, you can assume other developers aren’t just assholes, and ask a question about why they’re doing something rather than making demands. Pack developers who have histories of being assholes don’t necessarily get to stay pack developers, at least to the extent that I control things. (edited)

I'm tempted to not even respond to that because that was rude af. But as Emo mentioned there are crucial and fundamental reasons why those settings are being modified. If you read the package documentation, you will see that i have a section describing how you, as the user, have a little control over how those settings behave and possibly prevent it from affecting other packs.

Had an issue in the hamsda oot randomizer tracker where fire temple checks didn't show as being open when I had the megaton hammer because it didn't think i had enough keys to progress . I only realized because the tracker said i had one check available and when i got there i realized i could do more than one (edited)

Were you by chance playing a non-keysanity seed while using the keysanity variant? The logic is very slightly different in the Fire Temple there

13:56

I ask because a bit ago I ran into that exact issue

because it would guarantee you'd be able to get the keys right?

13:57

which would put most of the checks in logic?

There's a key door in vanilla that gets downgraded to a regular door in non-keysanity rando

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